[quote author=Quantronic DreamViolence link=topic=29520
I mean, if you've got a huge post about why you like the old combat and don't think the new combat is for you then uh, this quote is super applicable no?
Unless you think "people" is a word that refers only to your own experience.
EDIT: And this is, again, coming from someone who doesn't think 6th edition is going to be any better than 5th for their preferences.
My post was basically saying "Simplifying is fine. Changing the combat system is fine. But sell the changes as good, not as 'not bad.'" Maybe I should have baked that more into the TL;DR, but I did try to make it clear that I don't think old SR is perfect (And I actually tried to make a bit of a dig at people who turn their noses up at D&D and simple combat systems, but I suppose I utterly failed to make that clear) and that the idea of simplifying it could work, but there needs to be something good about the new system, not just 'less bad.'
Like the new combat system's changes can be summed up as 'removing fiddly bits and simplifying it.' Sure. Ok. A lot of my favorite combat systems are very simple. Traveller comes to mind.
Now why is this good? Why will this be fun? So much of the dev talk is about how they don't like something about the old system and are nuking it, but there is so little talk about what will be fun or great about combat, especially for PC types that are losing a major dimension of themselves.
If you were to be asked "What is cool about 6e combat" what would you say, other than saying 'its simple, you don't need to look stuff up?'
In Exalted you have crazy charm combos that allow you to do wacky things. D&D 3.5 has a super complex spell space that helps elevate it above grinder combat.
Traveller, a very simple combat system, is basically rocket tag where defensive actions are very strong but if someone subverts your defensive actions through finding a clever way to bypass them your probably doomed so despite the fact guns are very scary you want to be doing proactive things in addition to hiding and running.
SR5 focuses on one side establishing a huge advantage, usually yours, that turns fights into puzzles almost like Hotline Miami where when things are going well you roll through everyone, when they are not things go terrible. SR4 is hyper-lethal, a lot like Trav, but with more complexity and fancier tools.
What about 6e? What is going to be the thing that makes it actively fun? What do you do in a 6e combat? What are you trying to accomplish in order to eliminate your foe? Avoid? There isn't a lot of focus on that, there is in fact sort of an anti-focus on it in some ways by talking a lot about things canceling out and situational effects being very limited in scope and intensity.
6e's combat MAY be great. But they aren't talking about why it is great. They are talking about how they are trying to get rid of things they don't like. They are pushing for like, rather than love, and I think that is a real problem when the like comes at the cost of love.
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6th's combat will (presumably) flow better and be about closer fights tipped by cool edge effects allowing player expression for resolution and more dynamic circumstances than pure GM fiat or action economy in 5th can allow.
Like that's 6th's whole gimmick near as I can tell: Shadowrun streamlined with narrative currency.
Which I'm not overly enthused about (because I'd like trolls with clubs to hit harder than humans) but it's a perfectly decent pitch that I'll be happy to read.