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What is the best edition of Shadowrun?

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Mirikon

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« Reply #15 on: <05-23-19/1103:00> »
Well, I started with 4th, but I've read enough of the older sourcebooks to have an idea about them. So, for me, it would be 4th. It was a far more elegant system than 5th, in my opinion, allowing for greater customization. It pruned a lot of overcomplicated stuff from earlier editions, while still being robust enough to get the job done.

Fifth, frankly, was not good, aside from the lore. They moved away from the far more easily customizeable Point Buy to priority, and kept the godforsaken progressive karma costs for advancement. They stripped out pretty much all but the barest of bare bones for customization and made changes that essentially forced a de facto class system for certain roles, since between insanely expensive gear/ware and priorities, you were straight up fucked if you were trying to do a lot of hybrid characters, and anyone who wanted to, say, be an ork or troll decker was going to run head long into a shit ton of problems, far more than they faced in 4th. Then you had the absolute prison rape that happened to TMs. And, on top of it all, the quality control looked to be borrowed from Bethesda's Fallout 76 and someone got the 'great' idea to go mixing the fluff and crunch together.

I never touched Anarchy, because one of my complaints about 5th was that they dumbed down and streamlined it too much, so I wasn't going to go for a further streamlined ruleset.

Hoping 6th will be better, but some of the things I've heard give cause for concern.
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Magnaric

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« Reply #16 on: <05-23-19/1105:03> »
I can't really say what's BEST, other than mirror what other people have said which is "Play whatever your table enjoys". I won't break down the minutiae of the rules or pros and cons like others have done(they do it better anyways), but I'll give my honest impressions on the editions I have played/GMed though:

1E. Never played, but I read most of the books(I'm a nostalgia and lore junkie). I can definitely understand how people felt the rules were clunky. The setting was great but a tad restrictive(limitations on magic, cyberware, etc), but the metaplots and atmosphere were incredible.

2E. BIG WORD DUMP AHEAD. My group recently started a campaign in this system, so I've read most of the books a few times. Previously we did a 4-year 4E campaign, thoughts on that below. So we decided to do a classic 2050s game, and it made sense to use a classic 2050s system. While the rules are definitely a touch clunky at first, and compared to later, smoother systems, I'm honestly amazed because the mechanics are so intrinsically tied to the lore of the setting, and they reflect that. Example: Various augmentations have different rules for how they interact(or don't) with other pieces of ware or modes of operation, and they go into a little detail about why that is. Like how a Rigger datajack and a Decker datajack use different spots and function differently because they interface with different parts of the brain. Very cool.

The atmosphere of the world improved even more, and it truly felt like the best expression of the cyberpunk "Man Meets Magic Meets Machine" that we know and love. The metaplots continued from where they were introduced in 1E, and things ramped up a ton along certain major plot lines(Universal Brotherhood -> Bug City, being an obvious example). It is quickly becoming my favourite of the editions I've played.

3E. Again an edition I haven't played, though I read about half of the books. Mostly lore and plot ones, as the rules books aren't a priority unless I plan on switching to 3E at some point, which I'm not right now. If you look online, you'll find people are very split on 3E. Some people love it, and swear it felt like the ultimate evolution of the rules and system that began in 1989. Other people feel very strongly that it began to change too much, dilute the atmosphere, etc, and they stuck with 2E as their preferred system. Neither is right or wrong. Story wise, more great metaplots were introduced, though this edition definitely felt(to me at least) like it started a lot of new plotlines instead of just continuing existing 1E or 2E ones. However, they're no less iconic or riveting. And sometimes terrifying. Just ask any veteran players about Medusas.  ;D

4E. My original Shadowrun experience, where I played for about 10 months in a friend's campaign before running my own for 4 years. As such, I do love this system, and it feels very complete to me. IMPORTANT NOTE: We technically played SR4A(the 20th Anniversary Edition, basically 4E but errata'd). Also a very divisive edition depending who you ask. It turned the setting on it's ear a bit by trying to modernise the universe that was inspired by 80s cyberpunk. It introduced wireless networks, streamlined and expanded bioware and nanite-based systems, had more info on space stations and metaplanes, and honestly it felt the most Science-Fiction of all the editions. Which honestly isn't a bad thing exactly, though it definitely took the gritty, street-level game of 1-3E and basically made it Shadowrun-But-Shinier.

The story and metaplots started to focus on magic and BIG events a fair bit. Maybe it took inspiration from Bug City, Renraku Arcology: Shutdown, and others, and saw how popular they were. There was a lot of plot around a war in Central/South America(think Neo-Vietnam for flavour), and an entire Dragon Civil War and culminated in not 1, not 2, but 3 MAJOR PLOTS involving the big upright iguanas. It also set the stage for metaplots to come, but that's basically been a tradition since forever with Shadowrun. Mechanically, it changed the system the most radically, and a lot of the rules it introduced are ones still used in 5E. Had a couple issues with things like massive dice pools, and I feel it catered to Powergamers the most out of all the editions. Still really damn good overall though.

5E. Hoo Boy. The controversy continues, and you'll understand why in a bit. But first off, 5E is a product of what the designers tried to do to fix some of the more glaring issues with previous editions, and still retain that old-school feeling from 1-3E. Grittier, darker, longer shadows, but no clunky rules. They tried, they really did. And despite what some people may tell you, they somewhat succeeded. I played a 5E game for about 8-10 months off and on, and I've read almost all the books that have come out(except the latest couple I think?), but I've stayed pretty up-to-date with what's going on with the game, CGL, etc. So that's where I'm coming from with this.

BTW, I will NOT just be shitting on 5E here. This is my own opinion about the way I feel about the game I played, and what I think of it as an edition. I'm mostly positive-ish, but feel free to check out other opinions here and on places like Reddit and Dumpshock(just bring a lime and some tequila if you do, because there's a lot of salt).

The surface rules mostly make sense, especially as a narrative tool, though there are a few glaring contradictions and rules confusions in need of errata. It primarily uses the rules introduced in 4E, though it tries to fix some of the issues of that system with moderate success. I won't get into the compplaints some of the other people will inevitably bring up, so I'll simply say 5E is pretty fun as long as you're okay with using a little GM Handwavium if you come up with rules that seem confusing, contradictory, or absent. Roll what makes sense and feels right. One thing I will note is 4E and 5E both tended to separate rules from fluff a lot more than 1-3E, in that the lore explanation for they way things worked isn't always reflected in the rules. Synergies between augmentations are mostly gone, though they still note conflicts(EX. 2 pieces of ware that won't work together).

Atmospherically, the setting seems in conflict with itself a bit. On the one hand, it returned to the darker, street-llevel roots in a lot of ways. The Great Big Metaplots were still there, but it was coming at you like you were mucking it up with the rest of the Runners. Jackpoint seems a little more open and grounded in 5E, whereas in 4E it seemed almost like the members responsible for the infodumps(and in-universe lore) were more removed from regular Shadowrunners. And this is good, I like the flavour in the books of 5E a lot. However, the setting's focus on magic gets VERY significant boost, to the point where technology and mundane stuff honestly feels like it's the forgotten 1st child and magic is the new baby that gets all the attention. I don't know the exact ratio of magic-focusing(or involved) splat books to non-magic ones, but the universe of 5E sure feels more fantasy than previous editions. This isn't...bad per say, but it does feel like there's some balance issues. Maybe this is what all the Die Hard 3E players felt like when 4E introduced Wireless and was so tech-focused. Huh. Interesting.

6E. IT'S NEW AND SCARY, RUN AWAY! Okay seriously, I know as much as most people here, which is from checking out the preview and podcasts and Shadowcasters Network and whatnot. So with excitement(and a little apprehension, to be fair) I'll keep an ear out.
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farothel

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« Reply #17 on: <05-23-19/1234:57> »
I've played mostly 4th (anniversary), so that's the one I know best.  I also have most of the books (both dead tree and PDF).  I've dabbled a bit online in 5th, so for me the best is 4th, mainly because it's the only one I've played to it's fullest extend.
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Voran

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« Reply #18 on: <05-23-19/1246:52> »
I still have older stuff, tho I have no idea where my sr3 core book wandered off to.  I like to look through the 1st edition stuff now and again, it makes me smile.  Glue on my 1st ed book died long ago, its more like a folder now.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #19 on: <05-23-19/1248:50> »
According to one poster over at Shadowrun Universe a few years ago, 4e and 5e are obviously an experiment Deus is performing on his prisoners in the Renraku Arcology and never actually happened for real, so you can guess his opinion.
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ORTEGA76

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« Reply #20 on: <05-23-19/1257:54> »
The best edition?  The one you play with your group.

Truth.

Magnaric

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« Reply #21 on: <05-23-19/1301:46> »
According to one poster over at Shadowrun Universe a few years ago, 4e and 5e are obviously an experiment Deus is performing on his prisoners in the Renraku Arcology and never actually happened for real, so you can guess his opinion.

This might be the most creative use of in-game lore in an out-of-game jab I've ever heard. I disagree, but that's funny as hell.  :D
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #22 on: <05-23-19/1308:48> »
According to one poster over at Shadowrun Universe a few years ago, 4e and 5e are obviously an experiment Deus is performing on his prisoners in the Renraku Arcology and never actually happened for real, so you can guess his opinion.

This might be the most creative use of in-game lore in an out-of-game jab I've ever heard. I disagree, but that's funny as hell.  :D

It's actually pretty clever, given the relationship between Deus and Otaku, and Otaku and Technomancers.... 4th edition is where Technomancers are established as a thing.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #23 on: <05-23-19/1319:18> »
The only sad part is that to this day I still don't know if the guy actually believed it.
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Reaver

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« Reply #24 on: <05-23-19/1328:23> »
For me, 3e was so far the best edition.

It had the most "complete" feel to the system. Lots of options, gear, and choices to build your character with. Lots of optional rules for everything from custom spell design to optional damage overflow rules.
Yes, there were problems (and no internet support) but they were managable.

4e was.... a mess. Its like they took the "Todd Howard" approach to game design. ("You can do anything! Be anyone! AT THE SAME TIME!!") which left you with a team of generalists, as everyone could rig, hack, and fight with minimal investments.... And DON'T get me started on Technomancers! (Ypu can read my feeling on that epic failure in other threads)
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PiXeL01

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« Reply #25 on: <05-23-19/1329:24> »
It’s all true on the Matrix!
Someone will believe it as it’s black on white
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FastJack

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« Reply #26 on: <05-23-19/1448:41> »
I do feel I should point out one thing in 5E that I really like, and it may get me a bunch of crap. The Life Modules from Run Faster are pretty nifty. I've always been a fan of character creation that's more than just math (even though I'm a Mathematician™), and I hope they keep that as an alternative creation method.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #27 on: <05-23-19/1502:14> »
Life Modules are great for life-like NPCs, and with a tool such as Herolab even nice for creating PCs, but they're a disaster if you're an optimizer. ;D
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Hobbes

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« Reply #28 on: <05-23-19/1517:01> »
There are lots of games that use something like Life Paths to create characters.  Personally, I didn't care for the implementation as they were some odd Karma and Skill Point-buy hybrid thing.  But I'd like to see a fluff driven version of the Life Path system that tied in more with Priority gen.

Start with Metatype, give you a few fluff choices based on what priority you select.  Then Magic/Resonance, give a few choices, and so forth.  Pick your priority, a higher priority gives you more choices, those choices drive language and knowledge skills, maybe even some negative qualities for the "E" priority pick.  Mechanically you're still spending your stat/skill points but you're filling in some Narrative broad strokes that have some mechanical representation.  Which is what most folks seem to enjoy.

Mechanically Life Paths could do some crazy stuff when I took a couple spins through.  Didn't care for how easily min/maxed they could be, and the *Huge* variance in outcomes. 

Anyways, wouldn't be in the main book, but as a splat book could be entertaining. 

BeCareful

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« Reply #29 on: <05-24-19/1319:04> »
*Raises hand* "Uh, the isometric video games, like Dragonfall?"

Seriously, those not only got me back into trying the actual pencil & paper & handfuls of dice game, it also got me interested in buying PDFs of novels and scenarios of older editions.

Also, I actually never had a group that could stick together after the first or second run. Hopefully, that'll all change soon.

As for editions themselves, I tried a bit with 3, 4a, and 5, and I liked them all for different reasons. I do prefer a point-buy chargen for how you can fine-tune everything, but considering the wealth of options, priority is a bit less of a slog. I do like how later editions tried to make hackers less of a seperate thing, and I can see how technomancers got to be really amazing, then got taken down a few too many pegs between 4th and 5th.

I'll probably be a late adopter for 6th, partially because I want to see how more things in it fit together, and when secondary books & errata come out for it. Plus, I already have a bunch of books for 5th.
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