[JoeNapalm]

Sanity Check :

Acrobatic Defender costs more because, even with Limits, the pool for Gymnastics is deeper than the pool for Agility?

I am building an Adept with high AGI and Gymnastics -- out of the gate, he would get an extra point with Agile Defender, but in the long run, Acrobatic is the better choice?

-Jn-

[Jack_Spade]

Hands down, Agile Defender is the better choice. You have vastly more opportunity and reason to max out Agility than you have for Gymnastics.
Even if you should some day come to the point where you want to rise Gymnastics above AGI you still could just buy the quality for 8 Karma (which would be the cheapest part of the whole operation)
Not to mention that having a limit on a defense test is always a bit dangerous...

[Bushw4cker]

Sanity Check :

Acrobatic Defender costs more because, even with Limits, the pool for Gymnastics is deeper than the pool for Agility?

I am building an Adept with high AGI and Gymnastics -- out of the gate, he would get an extra point with Agile Defender, but in the long run, Acrobatic is the better choice?

-Jn-

I imagine that is the Logic behind making it a 4 vs 3 point Quality.  You can also specialize with a skill, giving you an extra two dice... Do you really need to get either quality?

What is your Willpower, Reaction and Intuition going to be? If you are looking at a 16 Dice Full Defense Pool vs. 19 Dice Full Defense Pool, might not be worth it..

[Hobbes]

I imagine that is the Logic behind making it a 4 vs 3 point Quality.  You can also specialize with a skill, giving you an extra two dice... Do you really need to get either quality?

Specializations are actually a Modifier to your dice pool, not an increase of the skill level.  I'd double check the wording on Acrobatic Defender to see if a Specialization would count. 

[JoeNapalm]

Hands down, Agile Defender is the better choice. You have vastly more opportunity and reason to max out Agility than you have for Gymnastics.
Even if you should some day come to the point where you want to rise Gymnastics above AGI you still could just buy the quality for 8 Karma (which would be the cheapest part of the whole operation)
Not to mention that having a limit on a defense test is always a bit dangerous...

Even as an Elf, don't I max out AGI much lower than I could Gymnastics, though?

Not arguing, just seeking clarity. 

-Jn-

[Jack_Spade]

Well, it's rather easy to get +4 to your AGI (spell, muscle-toner, drugs, attribute boost, etc.) at the beginning of your career
Raising your Skill above 6 takes enormous amounts of Karma (just to get to 10 you spend 68 Karma) and training time.

If you really spend all that Karma on one skill, you probably won't mind spending 8 more to get the quality later on too.

Also keep in mind that for every three dice to defense you need to raise your Physical Limit at least by one (which requires raising other attributes).
This is especially important if you are hit by an attack that creates more hits than your physical limit: With Agile Defender you can just reroll misses with edge, with Acrobatic Defender you are forced to add Edge to break the Limit.

The three points more you can get with Gymnastics usually isn't worth the Karma expense

[JoeNapalm]

Well, it's rather easy to get +4 to your AGI (spell, muscle-toner, drugs, attribute boost, etc.) at the beginning of your career
Raising your Skill above 6 takes enormous amounts of Karma (just to get to 10 you spend 68 Karma) and training time.

If you really spend all that Karma on one skill, you probably won't mind spending 8 more to get the quality later on too.

Also keep in mind that for every three dice to defense you need to raise your Physical Limit at least by one (which requires raising other attributes).
This is especially important if you are hit by an attack that creates more hits than your physical limit: With Agile Defender you can just reroll misses with edge, with Acrobatic Defender you are forced to add Edge to break the Limit.

The three points more you can get with Gymnastics usually isn't worth the Karma expense

THIS is why I come here. 

Thanks.

Anyone ever heard of a 1pt Positive Quality worth getting?? 

Though, really, I think boosting above 7 will be tough -- I'm an Adept, so I'll have to get a Focus or something. Can't cast spells, muscle toner and drugs right out, and I didn't pick up Attribute Boost. But I could get Foci to do some of it, or when I Initiate later on...

-Jn-

[Whiskeyjack]

Acro Defender is more expensive because, on paper, Gymnastics can go to 12 by itself.

It doesn't matter that nobody will ever do this, or that someone can leave chargen with AGI ~12. Or that defense tests under Agile Defender don't even have an applicable limit.

That's the problem with solely balancing things on paper while not considering the general play experience at all. The fact that the pool CAN be bigger doesn't matter if it never ACTUALLY IS 99% of the time.

Agile Defender is pretty much always going to be better. It's easier to get high AGI, the bonus for the rest of the turn is worth it for any character who can reliably generate 3+ actions (which isn't hard itself), and no Limit is great.

Also the fact is that AGI is one of the best stats in the game, whereas Gymnastics is a fairly niche skill

[JoeNapalm]

Acro Defender is more expensive because, on paper, Gymnastics can go to 12 by itself.

It doesn't matter that nobody will ever do this, or that someone can leave chargen with AGI ~12. Or that defense tests under Agile Defender don't even have an applicable limit.

That's the problem with solely balancing things on paper while not considering the general play experience at all. The fact that the pool CAN be bigger doesn't matter if it never ACTUALLY IS 99% of the time.

Agile Defender is pretty much always going to be better. It's easier to get high AGI, the bonus for the rest of the turn is worth it for any character who can reliably generate 3+ actions (which isn't hard itself), and no Limit is great.

Also the fact is that AGI is one of the best stats in the game, whereas Gymnastics is a fairly niche skill

Copy and grokked.

Now I just have to figure out how to boost my street-level guy's AGI.

First time with SR5 (Old SR1/SR4A guy), first time trying to do a evasion Adept, etc. Amazing how different from a soaky Street Sam it is.

-Jn-

[Whiskeyjack]

Consider Prototype Transhuman and Muscle Toner.

[Jack_Spade]

Attribute Boost Agility is only 0,25 PP. Coupled with magic 6 you are looking on average at 2 bonus Agility dice with only one Drain.
That's by far the most efficient way to increase your Agility for Agile Defender.
You can get it with a Force 1 Qi-Focus (although I wouldn't recommend that)

[Coyote]

Also, Kamikaze drug (it's pretty addictive so you'd want to use Pharmaceutical grade, which does get expensive).
Infiltrator BTL.
Increase Attribute/Agility spell.
Two levels of Berzerker and Ability Boost (Agility) Adept powers.

If you want to max Agility at +4, there are several ways. And Muscle Toner (and also Muscle Augmentation) was already mentioned. Also, Suprathyroid Gland.