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Adept Ways

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MijRai

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« Reply #45 on: <02-16-16/1141:45> »
The problem there is folks are getting tired of house-ruling it at their tables.  There's too many problems, of which this is a relatively minor one. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #46 on: <02-16-16/1152:28> »
Returning gamer to the SR fold, last time I ran/played was with 2nd ed and yes, I'm feeling very old these days. 

On Topic:

With all due respect, I understand that adding my voice to the grumbling is more "negative noise" and thus easy to tune out, but honestly, it makes me appreciate how Paizo runs their shop more than ever.

My group consists of 5 individuals who have been gamers (2 of them pros in the industry) for nearly 30 years now, and we all are aware of the challenges inherit in this industry, but the SG is a decidedly frustrating product.  SR is on its 5th evolution, the support books should have a lot more clarity than is currently the case and is likely due to too many cooks adding to the stew.

I respectfully suggest SR's IP owners get together, appoint a committed project leader who gets all participating authors on the same page and definitively clean up the SG with a official 2nd printing (with a discount for owners of the 1st print).  At some point you got to eat the frog and do the right thing with the product you put on the market, and not insist your customers have to wade through a sea of forum posts for answers.  This is your baby and I'm quite certain a massive labor of love, don't let complacency ruin what could be achieved with honorable followup.
Unfortunately, Catalyst doesn't read this forum and hasn't seemed interested in replacing whoever is ultimately in charge of this edition of the line and/or its editing.

It's pretty clear this is a line-level issue, because BattleTech gets regular errata, so you can't say it's really the IP owner's fault, beyond a failure to replace the people in charge of the line.
Playability > verisimilitude.

adzling

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« Reply #47 on: <02-17-16/1047:18> »
They've fallen down and cant get up.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #48 on: <02-17-16/1050:30> »
Unfortunately, Catalyst doesn't read this forum and hasn't seemed interested in replacing whoever is ultimately in charge of this edition of the line and/or its editing.

Honestly, with attitudes like this flying around the boards, one can't really blame the Powers That Be for not reading posts here much. Why bother when instead of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism there's just a bunch of insults directed at them?
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Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #49 on: <02-17-16/1211:20> »
Unfortunately, Catalyst doesn't read this forum and hasn't seemed interested in replacing whoever is ultimately in charge of this edition of the line and/or its editing.

Honestly, with attitudes like this flying around the boards, one can't really blame the Powers That Be for not reading posts here much. Why bother when instead of CONSTRUCTIVE criticism there's just a bunch of insults directed at them?
Because burying your head in the sand is a solution? Spare me.

I didn't make a personal attack on the editor in my post. It's not a personal attack to suggest a person should be replaced if many inconsistencies/vaguenesses, let alone blatant errors, are making it to publication. The editing of this line is objectively flawed and has been lacking for years - evidenced by the threads on these forums, no recent errata despite ongoing problems, and finally forumites making their own FAQ because nothing official seems to ever be forthcoming. The problems are painfully obvious to anyone who reads the books.

So you think we should fluff up peoples' egos because saying the end product is bad, is mean? You can do what you want - I'm not interested in being tone policed when my posts aren't TOS violations. I paid good money for these books, which I expected to be more usable on their own merits, without excessive table tweaking/interpretations/seeking community support, and that just isn't the case. In no way do I expect perfection but there is a big gap between perfection and simply consistent rules/good editing.

People would be more understanding if this problem was ever acknowledged by the powers that be, or if it was a one-off occurrence in a book released early in the line, not when the problems are systemic, ongoing, and show no signs of ceasing. I think it's safe to say a lot of people have given many benefits of the doubt, but continuing to do the same thing over and over when the results are the same is insanity. I am probably not alone saying that I have no more benefit of the doubt to give because my reserve of sympathy, understanding, and goodwill is not infinite.
« Last Edit: <02-17-16/1215:16> by Whiskeyjack »
Playability > verisimilitude.

adzling

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« Reply #50 on: <02-17-16/1227:40> »
We're well past constructive criticism, that ship sailed a long time ago when the management gave up on any semblance of caring.

At this point it's just up to the community to fix what we paid $$ for.

Which doesn't engender any sympathy for the awol publisher, Catalyst.

If they actually spent some effort on releasing errata and updating PDF books to reflect said changes then I think everyone would be relatively happy.

However, given their track record (a year and counting with no errata, no updates to PDFs to incorporate old errata) we know that is not going to be happen.

So it's up to us to fix it, see Falar's fan-run "fix shadowrun cause no one else will" wiki.

Whiskeyjack

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« Reply #51 on: <02-17-16/1247:52> »
I don't know how much is on catalyst versus specifically the SR line leadership. Sure catalyst should have a hand in developing the IP and checking the thermometer of community opinion, but ultimately they do a lot more than just SR. Certainly they should be providing more oversight than they currently appear to be. But the weight is definitely resting more on the specific SR structure.
Playability > verisimilitude.

adzling

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« Reply #52 on: <02-17-16/1646:47> »
I agree Whiskey but I was hit with the ban hammer for calling out the line manager so now i'm just going to refer to Catalyst going forward.