[Marcus Gideon]

That's not really my point. I'm not talking about running this precise Autosoft on my Commlink. I'm just talking about taking the Smartlink software that is in that Autosoft, which is also in the Smartlink implant, which is also installed into your Glasses or Goggles when you get Smartlink installed... and installing that software itself into your Commlink as a typical program.

Then, since all it does is process data from the Gun, and generate a HUD, it can do so through your Trodes or Datajack, instead of generating it directly in your eyeball (with a fleshy implant), or on the lenses of your Goggles. You'd still be paying the full nu¥en price for the software, and you'd still be paying the Essence for a Datajack with +2 bonus. Or if you went with non-invasive Trodes, you'd only get +1 bonus.

It's not "a free lunch" by any means. It's just a different way of getting the HUD.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Completely up to you, of course, as a house rule. Not for me, but your mileage may vary.

[gradivus]

When you pay for the Smart link, what you're getting is the software that processes data from the gun, calculates trajectories, and creates a combat heads up display. Your typical Image Link doesn't handle all that extra processing, it just does basic Matrix imagery.

So you have to use Eyeware capable of Image Link, since that covers the ability to generate graphics. But you still need the specific software to handle the combat side of things. That's why you can't replace one with the other.

Simply having a graphics card driver does not replace the need to buy and install Call of Duty separately.

If you look at  my first  posts, you'll see I stated you need image link or dni to visualize the smartlinks info.

My point in the second post, is whether you see smartlink as a co-processor processing the info from the smartgun system or as a software bundle processing  the info, if you have dni it doesn't need to be in your eye. It doesn't enhance your eye in any way fashion or form.

[Strange]

When you pay for the Smart link, what you're getting is the software that processes data from the gun, calculates trajectories, and creates a combat heads up display. Your typical Image Link doesn't handle all that extra processing, it just does basic Matrix imagery.

So you have to use Eyeware capable of Image Link, since that covers the ability to generate graphics. But you still need the specific software to handle the combat side of things. That's why you can't replace one with the other.

Simply having a graphics card driver does not replace the need to buy and install Call of Duty separately.

If you look at  my first  posts, you'll see I stated you need image link or dni to visualize the smartlinks info.

My point in the second post, is whether you see smartlink as a co-processor processing the info from the smartgun system or as a software bundle processing  the info, if you have dni it doesn't need to be in your eye. It doesn't enhance your eye in any way fashion or form.

I think it has to be dependent on the eye, otherwise wouldn't it be in bodyware or somewhere else?  Perhaps it senses where your eye is looking.  Is the wireless connection (that connects to the matrix) built into the gun or your eye?  The entry for throwing knives says that the knives themselves have access (or infer it, anyway).

Anyway,  The first sentence under smartgun system specifies connecting to the user's smartlink, Then, under vision enhancements, it says (smartlink) works with a smartgun system to give you the full benefit of the system, and without a smartlink a smartgun system just sends out data that isn't received by anyone and has no effect.  I think all this supports that you have to have the smartlink specifically installed, image link just won't cut it.  Seeing as in all aspects smartlink is more expensive than the alternatives, I think this all points to needing smartlink to make a smartgun work.

[gradivus]

It really doesn't sense where your eye is looking- it can go in glasses for example...while the glasses are pointed where your head is, your eyes could be looking toward the side.

In any event, it processes where the smartgun camera is looking (which lines up with the barrel).

remember, you can shoot around corners because the camera gives you sight.

[Strange]

It really doesn't sense where your eye is looking- it can go in glasses for example...while the glasses are pointed where your head is, your eyes could be looking toward the side.

In any event, it processes where the smartgun camera is looking (which lines up with the barrel).

remember, you can shoot around corners because the camera gives you sight.

Both of these can still detect where your eyeball is looking.  Glasses can have a small sensor detecting which way you are looking.  I wasn't referring to the fact that the gun has a camera on it, I was questioning why it has to be eyeware. different subjects.

[Gatlack]

The "argument" may have been in thinking that somehow, every time you Take Aim, you would add another +3 to the roll.

Yes, that is exactly the way it I described it, and a way in which it can be read. Unfortunately nothing was presented to refute my claim.

Which is not the case, since Take Aim only builds a cumulative +1/+1 up to half your Willpower's worth. So a gunner with Willpower 4 can Take Aim twice at the most. Which would be +4 Accuracy and +4 attack, total.

Yes, aiming will only help you build up a modifier up to wil/2 rounded up to accuracy or dice pool when aiming. However, the sentence under "Wireless Smartgun" could fill this limit more quickly.
I hope I can clear my intentions with an example.

Case 1:

Lets say I have Agility 6, Pistols 6, Willpower 5 and a non-wireless smartgun and implanted smartlink connections.
My pool for shooting normally is 12 dice.
I can use "Take Aim" for 3 simple actions and get 1 die per simple action which means I would have 12 + 3 (aiming) = 15 dice.

Case 2:

Lets say I have Agility 6, Pistols 6, Willpower 5 and a wireless smartgun and implanted smartlink connections.
My pool for shooting normally is 14 dice.
I can use "Take Aim" for 1 simple action and get 1 die for the normal "Take Aim" action and  +2 dice for a "Wireless Smartgun" 14 + 3 (aiming) = 17 dice.

Now lets up the willpower to 11:

Case 3:

Lets say I have Agility 6, Pistols 6, Willpower 11 and a non-wireless smartgun and implanted smartlink connections.
My pool for shooting normally is 12 dice.
I can use "Take Aim" for 6 simple actions and get 1 die per simple action which means I would have 12 + 6 (aiming) = 18 dice.

Case 4:

Lets say I have Agility 6, Pistols 6, Willpower 11 and a wireless smartgun and implanted smartlink connections.
My pool for shooting normally is 14 dice.
I can use "Take Aim" for 2 simple actions and get 1 die for the normal "Take Aim" action and  +2 dice for a "Wireless Smartgun" for each simple action spent aiming, which means 14 + 6 (aiming) = 20 dice,
since under "Wireless Smartgun" there is:

"A wireless smartgun connection provides an assortment of bonuses, but this table only provides the bonus you get while using it to attack. When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses with each action of aiming."

Again, because "both bonuses" could mean the chosen bonus of the "Take Aim" action in the table and the "Wireless Smartgun" bonus of the table on page 176.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Take Aim only has two bonuses; +1 Accuracy, or +1 Dice Pool. The +2 Dice Pool of a Wireless Smartgun (if the smartlink is implanted) has nothing to do with Take Aim.

When you use Take Aim with a wireless smartgun, you get both +1 Accuracy and +1 Dice Pool for each action of Take Aim.

It really is that simple. Your case 2 and 4 misrepresent the rules, as per the above.

[Gatlack]

Take Aim only has two bonuses; +1 Accuracy, or +1 Dice Pool. The +2 Dice Pool of a Wireless Smartgun (if the smartlink is implanted) has nothing to do with Take Aim.

Yes it does. The wireless smartgun modifies the bonus of the Take Aim action.

[Herr Brackhaus]

*sighs*
Yes, it does, but not in the way you think.

The Take Aim action is modified by the wireless smartgun, but only so far as granting both +1 accuracy and +1 dice pool bonus when taking aim. The additional +2 for using a wireless smartgun is unrelated to the take aim action.

Let me break it down.

1. Page 433 states the following:

Wireless: A wireless smartlink provides a dice pool bonus to all attacks with the weapon: +1 if you’re using gear with a smartlink or +2 if you’re using an augmentation for which you paid Essence. Ejecting a clip and changing fire modes are Free Actions.

Notice how this dice pool bonus only applies to attacks.

2. Page 178 states the following:

When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses with each action of aiming.

This clearly indicates that "both bonuses" refers only to when the Take Aim action is used. The text literally spells out "using the Take Aim action" for you.

3. Page 166 states the following:

Each Take Aim action applies a +1 dice pool modifier OR +1 Accuracy increase to the Attack Test.

Simply put:
Take Aim is a Simple Action that, when taken with a weapon equipped with a wireless smartgun, confers both bonuses. Both bonuses in this case refers to "+1 dice pool modifier or +1 Accuracy".
Fire Weapon is a Simple or Complex action that, when taken with a weapon equipped with a wireless smartgun, grants the shooter a pool modifier depending on how the smartgun is accessed.

When using Take Aim with a wireless smartgun, read the sentence on page 166 like this:

Each Take Aim action applies a +1 dice pool modifier OR AND +1 Accuracy increase to the Attack Test.

I really can't make it clearer than that.

[Malevolence]

I like the idea of being able to install Smartlink on anything that can run it. And it really isn't so OP to do. CitizenJoe's post nicely outlines the components of the system:
1. The modded gun, This doesn't change.
2. The ballistic computer that takes the info from the gun and other available sources (the matrix, but also potentially sensors on the bullets or user) and uses it to provide firing solutions
3. A connection between the ballistic computer and the gun
4. A display
5. A connection between the ballistic computer and the display


In SR5, so far, there is no skin link option, so the connection between the gun and computer is wireless in most cases, but wired is an option. In the default configuration, the connection between the computer and the display is that the computer is part of the display - 2000¥ worth of hardware and software. We can now determine that approximately 1500¥ of that was the software from the autosoft cost (this is malleable as the software for the visual modification is likely vastly simplified as it only needs to interface with its custom hardware and a smaller subset of potential sensor types). In this new paradigm, you need at least a rating 3 device in order to run the software - that's a 1000¥ commlink or a rating 3 RCC/deck, where it also takes up a program slot. You can view the 500¥ (roughtly) of hardware from the visual enhancement as a highly specialized, single (unmodifiable) program slot R3 computer. In other words, we can further break down the ballistic computer into software and processing power. Smartlink is the software, and it requires a rating 3 program slot worth of processing power. Normal cyberware doesn't provide a program slot, but you could attach a program carrier to any DR3 or higher device and use it to run the smartlink. I would, however, rule that the 900¥ cost of the program carrier does not, in this case, include the cost of the program.


The display could be imagelink or DNI. The connection between the device running smartlink and the display is usually going to be wireless, but if you are paranoid, you could use wires.

[gradivus]

Take Aim only has two bonuses; +1 Accuracy, or +1 Dice Pool. The +2 Dice Pool of a Wireless Smartgun (if the smartlink is implanted) has nothing to do with Take Aim.

Yes it does. The wireless smartgun modifies the bonus of the Take Aim action.

No...the +2DP(or+1 if not cybernetic) modifier from the smartgun is the smartgun's wireless bonus. Nothing- absolutely nothing- to do with Take Aim.

When aiming (using the Take Aim action) with a smartgun system the shooter gets both bonuses with each action of aiming.
There are two bonuses with Take Aim, +1 DP and +1 Accuracy.
Normally you have to choose one or the other.
With Smartgun  you get both the DP and the Accuracy bonus.
It's that simple.

[Marcus Gideon]

Agreed.

The +2 Accuracy and +1/+2 dice are bonuses for having a Smartgun and Smartlink (implanted or not). Those bonuses apply no matter what.

When you Take Aim with an ordinary weapon, each action spent Taking Aim either gives you +1 Accuracy OR +1 dice. If you wanted +1 to both, you'd have to spend 2 actions Taking Aim.

If you have a Smartgun and Smartlink, you get both the +1 Accuracy and +1 dice for every Take Aim action. If you Take Aim twice, you get +2 Accuracy and +2 dice total. If you Take Aim 5 times you get +5 and +5.

YOU DO NOT get to compound the normal Smartlink bonuses into +3 and +3... and then proceed to add an extra +3 and +3 every time you Take Aim... and try to make it into +6 or +9 or +12.

This is wrong, and you are wrong for thinking so. Incorrect. Mistaken. Erroneous. Inaccurate. False.

Nope
Nope
Nope

[gradivus]

You forgot fallacious.

Just saying.

Hey- Philosophy class in college had a professor whose jeans where two sizes too tight on her.. so I have a fondness for the word.

[Medicineman]

.....ooO( .... fallacious....sounds to me a bit like fellatio....)

With a Dance in Thoughts
Medicineman