[gradivus]

At extreme range with a sniper rifle, you don't even need a Bumblebee. Just get a Roto-drone, add a (concealed) weapon mount, and keep it out of range of everything else.

True
But are we using the drone mod rules or the vehicle mod rules?

[Rooks]

At extreme range with a sniper rifle, you don't even need a Bumblebee. Just get a Roto-drone, add a (concealed) weapon mount, and keep it out of range of everything else.

True
But are we using the drone mod rules or the vehicle mod rules?

well considering sniper rifle turrets are 16F and large "sport rifle" is 12 F...

[Adamo1618]

personally I preferred the Bumblebee at extreme range with a sniper rifle... that is until they nerfed the Bumblebee

Where did they nerf it?

[UnLimiTeD]

Wakshaani posted a new table with some changes in the Rigger 5 Errata thread that was meant to be in the book, and the Bumblebee was hit especially hard.

[falar]

Also, I think you guys underestimate the powers of a Noizquito swarm.

Let's kick it to see how effective we can build a Noizquito swarm -

Let's assume we're working on a budget, so we can only afford five drones -

10,000 nuyen

For ease, we're going to give them all the same gun - a Nitama Sporter for range. If you want more stopping power, consider a Colt Agent Special instead.

1500 nuyen for guns, 4000 nuyen for mounts.

Let's now do some modding - drop the Sensor rating by 1 for a Mod Point.

Handling up by 1 for 1000: 5000
Speed up by 2 for 2000: 10000

Now, what do we need for autosofts/programs?

Swarm: 600
Targeting: Nitama Sporter 5: 2500
Maneuvering: Noizquito 5: 2500
SmartSoft: 1500

What do we end up with?

A swarm of 5 micro-drones with Speed 5 acting in concert to take down enemies. Let's see what our penalty to hit will be:

-3 for Microdrones
-5 for Speed 5
-10+ for Strobes/Speakers

So we're going to start out with a -18 to hit any particular Noizquito, or -28 if you have the speakers on. After that, they dodge with 10 dice as they'll use the RCC for their Pilot rating.

Okay, but what about shooting? As a swarm, it's going to be 10 + 2 + 4, or 16 dice. Not the best, but not shabby either.

Also, for 6100 nuyen, you can add another Noizquito, which will add a dice to the attack and -2 to -4 for the defense side. Crank this up to the limit (15) and you're spending about 100,000 nuyen for a swarm of strobing, screeching death. They literally cannot take actions (-30 to -60 from the lights/speakers alone) and are going to be facing 10 + 2 + 14 = 26 dice for attack. Add in a Target Device check for kicks and that can easily be 30.

[Herr Brackhaus]

I'd personally use the standard vehicle mods instead of drone mods.

So, Standard Size is 2 mod slots, avail 8F, and 1500¥, and Concealed Visibility is +4 mod slots, +4 availability, and +4000¥. Because it's a Roto-drone you don't really need flexible or turret flexibility so Fixed Flexibility adds nothing to availability or cost, and the same goes for Control where we stick with Remote Control. That means 6 mod slots, avail 12F and 5500¥ for a concealed standard mount on a Roto-Drone.

If using the drone mod rules, you'd be looking at a Huge mount (5MP, 4000¥, 16F) for a sniper rifle, or a Large mount (4MP, 3200¥, 12F) for a sporting rifle (same range, less punch). Adding the pop-out functionality adds a cost of 100x5=500¥ or 100x6=600¥, again depending on the size of the mount, for a total cost of 4600¥ for a Huge pop-out mount or a 3800¥ for a Large pop-out mount.

[UnLimiTeD]

Also, I think you guys underestimate the powers of a Noizquito swarm.

We have to assume there's a limit to the penalties, however. Noizquitos've been already discussed aplenty and they're so good it's mildly irritating.
Do all drones actuall need weapons, or is one sufficient if the othes provide swarm bonuses?

[Rooks]

Also, I think you guys underestimate the powers of a Noizquito swarm.

Let's kick it to see how effective we can build a Noizquito swarm -

Let's assume we're working on a budget, so we can only afford five drones -

10,000 nuyen

For ease, we're going to give them all the same gun - a Nitama Sporter for range. If you want more stopping power, consider a Colt Agent Special instead.

1500 nuyen for guns, 4000 nuyen for mounts.

Let's now do some modding - drop the Sensor rating by 1 for a Mod Point.

Handling up by 1 for 1000: 5000
Speed up by 2 for 2000: 10000

Now, what do we need for autosofts/programs?

Swarm: 600
Targeting: Nitama Sporter 5: 2500
Maneuvering: Noizquito 5: 2500
SmartSoft: 1500

What do we end up with?

A swarm of 5 micro-drones with Speed 5 acting in concert to take down enemies. Let's see what our penalty to hit will be:

-3 for Microdrones
-5 for Speed 5
-10+ for Strobes/Speakers

So we're going to start out with a -18 to hit any particular Noizquito, or -28 if you have the speakers on. After that, they dodge with 10 dice as they'll use the RCC for their Pilot rating.

Okay, but what about shooting? As a swarm, it's going to be 10 + 2 + 4, or 16 dice. Not the best, but not shabby either.

Also, for 6100 nuyen, you can add another Noizquito, which will add a dice to the attack and -2 to -4 for the defense side. Crank this up to the limit (15) and you're spending about 100,000 nuyen for a swarm of strobing, screeching death. They literally cannot take actions (-30 to -60 from the lights/speakers alone) and are going to be facing 10 + 2 + 14 = 26 dice for attack. Add in a Target Device check for kicks and that can easily be 30.

until the mage lightning balls the entire area where they are or the decker uses fork on the two drones and gets two marks on the RCC by proxy

[falar]

until the mage lightning balls the entire area where they are or the decker uses fork on the two drones and gets two marks on the RCC by proxy

The Mage is facing those ridiculous penalties to cast the Lightning Ball. I doubt he's going to get more than one hit and, as a GM, I would rule that any scatter misses the swarm. Also, the swarm can take the Run For Your Life interrupt action.

Fork is more of a thing, but that's why you're Running Silent, have modified Sleaze onto your RCC, and are running Smoke-and-Mirrors to have a decent Sleaze score. You, of course, have implanted antennae and a datajack for Noise Reduction 4, so you can rock at least a Sleaze 5. It will take that decker a minimum of 3 initiative passes to find two Noizquitos, but more likely it will take him 5 or 6. And he'll most likely be taking the negative sound penalties, if not the strobes. And if he's taking the sound penalties, he literally might not be able to find the Noizquitos.

We have to assume there's a limit to the penalties, however. Noizquitos've been already discussed aplenty and they're so good it's mildly irritating.

My GM is ruling that they max out at -10, which means five Noizquitos is all you need for both penalties or ten for one.

Do all drones actuall need weapons, or is one sufficient if the othes provide swarm bonuses?

I would rule that to do anything as a swarm, they all have to be able to take that general kind of action, but the book is unclear.

[Malevolence]

I'm also pretty sure that in order for the Noizsquitos (or any of your other drones) to do anything, they would be subject to the same penalties. So your 16 dice pool for shooting drops to 11 (assuming that your reduced sensors include flare comp and have the microphones disabled/removed). Or am I missing a rule somewhere that states allies are unaffected?

[falar]

I'm also pretty sure that in order for the Noizsquitos (or any of your other drones) to do anything, they would be subject to the same penalties. So your 16 dice pool for shooting drops to 11 (assuming that your reduced sensors include flare comp and have the microphones disabled/removed). Or am I missing a rule somewhere that states allies are unaffected?

Honestly, it's unclear. I think disabling the mics would cover the sound part easily. For the strobe part, it's only while you're looking in the direction of the drones that you get that penalty. If you turn around or close your eyes, you don't get the penalty. In my mind, your swarm is flying in concert doing basically fly-by bombing run swoops, so they're mostly all parallel - facing in the same direction, forward, where none of them are.

It's a valid concern, but it's not clear what would happen. And you can easily picture swarms where the individual drones aren't looking at any other drone.

[UnLimiTeD]

Yeah, but I can also picture a mage casting indirect with closed eyes and plugged ears, or someone just relying on ultrasound or an other non-visible light option.
What is intended is not quite clear at this point.
In any case, I think those buggers are definitely too powerful when compared to everything else in the drone chapter.
And I really think the drone sizes should influence what you can put on them in some way, as a drone the size of an insect carrying a mid sized firearm just boggles the mind.

[Tinkerbell]

WARNING: The following may be my own interpretation of the rules or even houserules trying to bring common sense into the game :-)

As a GM I would probably judge that the visual penalty from the LEDs to be an envoirmental modifyer- so it could not be more than -6. together with other envoimental modifyers the maximum can be -10.
The speaker penalty seems to be completely out of the rules. Since when does noise cause a penalty? This would mean everybody in a gun fight would suffer penaltys from gun sounds...
For drones i see no reason why they should be affected at all by speaker noise. For Metahumans is wouldnt allow more than -4 for noise disturbing their concentration - maybe rather not more than -2.

Due to the description in SR5 microdrones are very fragile.
The blast of a stun grenade should be strong enough to kill a whole swarm flying microdrones.
Outside a building wind strongly affect flying microdrones, making them more or less useless.
Reflecting surfaces will cause some kind of modifyer even for people/drones dont looking directly to the drone.
As mentioned before: Ultrasound can negate the visual modifyers.

Are there any rules about flying drones (or vehicles in general) and suppressive fire? Can they take full cover? Are they rolling Pilot or Pilot+Pilot to defend? (Is Edge substituted by Pilot?) How could size modifiyers be taken into account?

[Adamo1618]

Wakshaani posted a new table with some changes in the Rigger 5 Errata thread that was meant to be in the book, and the Bumblebee was hit especially hard.

Wooooooow... I'm really fucking disappointed. No offense, devs. The Bumblebee was one of the drones that really made Rigger characters worth it. I mean, the Rotodrone can't take a few hits, which is quite important for air support. Or am I just being pessimistic here?

[falar]

Wakshaani posted a new table with some changes in the Rigger 5 Errata thread that was meant to be in the book, and the Bumblebee was hit especially hard.

Wooooooow... I'm really fucking disappointed. No offense, devs. The Bumblebee was one of the drones that really made Rigger characters worth it. I mean, the Rotodrone can't take a few hits, which is quite important for air support. Or am I just being pessimistic here?

You're being pessimistic. You can easily make a Roto-Drone your main air support now.

Roto-Drone base: 8000 nuyen

Handling 4  Speed 2R  Acceleration 1  Body  4(4)  Armor  6  Pilot 3  Sensor 3   6   8000$

Let's toss on some decent armor that won't cause any reduction in anything - 14 - 11200$ (2 MP)

Let's toss on the biggest weapon mount we can - Huge: 5000$

Let's get a decent MMG for this bad boy: Stoner-Ares M202 - 7000$

Total Cost: 31,200
What it is: The old FB-Bumblebee
What it shows: The old FB-Bumblebee was around an 8500 nuyen price break. It needed some reduction for balance reasons.

Note that for more money, you can easily crank this bad boy up to around 20 armor, I believe.