[Halinn]

That's good because there's a glitch in the Chummer chargen software that reduces MA by 'ware installed when using the Priority Build mode even if the character has a Magic lower than 6 (like 4). This does not occur in the Point (Karma) build mode.

Not a glitch. See p. 95 of core book. Probably priority is doing something wrong, though.

Priority is doing it as per the magic section... lose a point of essence, lose a point of magic rating and maximum magic.

I apparently didn't write what I meant to write. I was going to say that karmagen was probably doing it wrong, not priority.

[Poindexter]

Personally, I really enjoy playing hamstrung characters sometimes. The struggle makes it all the more worth while. I used to read Thor comics back in the 80's/90's and the writers were just CONSTANTLY putting some kind of curse on him or screwing up the hammer, or turning him into a frog, etc. Made for some really dramatic scenes. As a result, I often gravitate toward characters that are fundamentally "fucked" in some way. Sometimes, ya just gotta go places you shouldn't ever go and do shit you have no business doing. That's life, Chummer.

I understand how a lot of people don't think that sort of thing is fun though.

...I don't mind challenges, but when 80% of what the character is trained do is effectively neutralised all the time, it makes one (at least myself) ask what am I doing here?

Crikey, I already feel like a modern day "Job" in RL the way it is, would like one of the few diversions I pursue to be somewhat more enjoyable.

Like i said, I totally understand why it wouldn't be enjoyable for a lot of people. But my favorite scenes in action movies are always the ones where characters have to do exactly the things they're bad at, when none of their advantages work anymore. I love it when the wand breaks, when conan has to be sneaky, when john mclane has no shoes, when spiderman has to go out into the flat plains, that kinda shit. It aint for everyone.

[kyoto kid]

That's good because there's a glitch in the Chummer chargen software that reduces MA by 'ware installed when using the Priority Build mode even if the character has a Magic lower than 6 (like 4). This does not occur in the Point (Karma) build mode.

Not a glitch. See p. 95 of core book. Probably priority is doing something wrong, though.

Priority is doing it as per the magic section... lose a point of essence, lose a point of magic rating and maximum magic.

I apparently didn't write what I meant to write. I was going to say that karmagen was probably doing it wrong, not priority.

...well that's no good to me then as there is no way to find a decent balance.

Taking Priority B to get 6 magic and burning out 2  will leave only priority D for resources unless I really want to crock her attributes or skills.  At least would like to get Improved Reflexes 2 (I can always augment this with Cram until she initiates) and Combat Sense 3.  Best I can do with Priority D magic is an MA of 3 (after the implants) which takes 25 build Karma as she only gets one Special Attribute point at E. (and would have an Edge of only 2 - perfect for a lot of glitches on Edge tests, crikey, may as well take the Bad Luck quality to boot).  It would also leave only .5 for additional Adept powers after taking Improved Reflexes 2 which would most likely be rendered useless most of the time by the background count.

[gradivus]

A background count impose a negative dice pool penalty
equal to its rating for all tests linked in any way to magic (such
as spellcasting, summoning, and skill tests that use active adept
powers such as Killing Hands or Improved Sense).

As far as I know, Initiative isn't a test so Improved Reflexes shouldn't be affected by background count.

On the other hand it provides a boost to reflexes so any test linked to reflexes would be affected.

Of course my understanding of the English language and Catalyst's use of the English language are at odds, so I'm probably wrong.


And, Home Ground- Background Acclimation does wonders.

[Facemage]

I think that the first chapter on p. 32 SG speaks only about active adept powers. The next chapter says that "Adepts may use a Simple action to turn on or off a passive power in cases where penalties from BC might exceed bonuses from their power".

If you have combat sense 2 in BC 3, you have to switch it off, because otherwise you get -1 to your dodge pool. I think that this is same for improved reflexes: In BC 2 improved reflexes 3 gives only +1 in reaction and +1d6 to initiative.

Tbh, street grimoire is not a new book anymore, why the official errata still does not solve these difficulties? Catalyst only produces more badly written texts... The game is not very popular, one reason is indeed this!

[gradivus]

I think that the first chapter on p. 32 SG speaks only about active adept powers. The next chapter says that "Adepts may use a Simple action to turn on or off a passive power in cases where penalties from BC might exceed bonuses from their power".

If you have combat sense 2 in BC 3, you have to switch it off, because otherwise you get -1 to your dodge pool. I think that this is same for improved reflexes: In BC 2 improved reflexes 3 gives only +1 in reaction and +1d6 to initiative.

Tbh, street grimoire is not a new book anymore, why the official errata still does not solve these difficulties? Catalyst only produces more badly written texts... The game is not very popular, one reason is indeed this!

Why would you turn off the IR3....if BC does affect it, it would still be +3Reaction +1d6 Initiative in BC2... the Background count would need to be 4+ to make me wan to turn it off.

[kyoto kid]

...as I may have mentioned, I was unaware of this when I designed the character.  It wasn't so much an issue for adepts on previous versions (3rd being the last one I regularly played under). From several sources where I have inquired about this, all mention that the background count is subtracted from the final initiative roll (eg. 3d6 + 11 - 2)  That is good. 

From what I heard and read this is sort of how I understand things now though a few questions remain.

fFor powers, that directly affect dice pools of any skill test, it  will be negatively affected by the count's rating.  So for example, for an adept in Chicago, unless she has a power with multiple rating levels that is greater than 2, the power will effectively be negated and only the base dice in the pools will apply to the test.  For example, an adept using Improved ability 2 will only have their normal dice pool for the test (as if they didn't have the power). Now the one question I have is, if the background count exceeds the power's rating, is the base dice pool further adjusted by the increased count? Same for a power like Attribute Boost - Agility 2, the adept will only get the dice for her magic attribute, without the power as her pool. If the count increases to 3, does she subtract another die from the test (and so on the worse it gets)?  Another area that still seems a bit hazy are powers like Enhanced Accuracy, linguist, or Sustenance which do have any affect on a dice pool, would these be negatively affected as well and how would that be handled?

For foci it seems pretty straightforward, if the background count is equal to greater than the force, they simply will not activate. 

This really should have been spelled out a little better in the rules as it is no small consequence for awakened characters, particularly adepts.  I've spent nearly two days asking around on various forums and looking for any detailed and definitive description. 

[kyoto kid]

I think that the first chapter on p. 32 SG speaks only about active adept powers. The next chapter says that "Adepts may use a Simple action to turn on or off a passive power in cases where penalties from BC might exceed bonuses from their power".

If you have combat sense 2 in BC 3, you have to switch it off, because otherwise you get -1 to your dodge pool. I think that this is same for improved reflexes: In BC 2 improved reflexes 3 gives only +1 in reaction and +1d6 to initiative.

Tbh, street grimoire is not a new book anymore, why the official errata still does not solve these difficulties? Catalyst only produces more badly written texts... The game is not very popular, one reason is indeed this!

Why would you turn off the IR3....if BC does affect it, it would still be +3Reaction +1d6 Initiative in BC2... the Background count would need to be 4+ to make me wan to turn it off.

...ummm.

Initiative is not a test and therefore not subject to BGC.

[Soahl]

So the suggestions I read to take magic at a lower priority level (eg. lower attribute score) to get some bio were incorrect then as basically the resulting attribute score would be 1 (if I applied the 1 special attribute point from Priority E to it) which would be pretty useless a I couldn't even get Improved reflexes 1. After Positive qualities, the most the attribute could be raised to is 3

I think someone misspoke when they gave you that advice. The only time setting your Magic Priority lower produces a higher Magic Attribute is when you place Metatype at a higher priority and use the Special Attribute Points to then increase Magic instead of Edge. It's a strategy that can be used to negate the penalty from Essence loss in character generation.

[spoiler]Essence Loss and MAG
As you probably know, any Essence Loss reduces your MAG Attribute by 1. Basically, if you're taking your base Essence (6) and subtract the Essence Cost of whatever Bio/Cyberware you're installing, then the whole number is what your MAG Attribute is limited to (save for qualities, Initiations, etc). For example, a Mage with 6 MAG and 6 Essence gets a Datajack installed. This drops him to 5.9 Essence, and thus 5 MAG. This also means he can then add .9 nire Essence worth of Bio/Cyberware before he incurs another penalty.

Where this gets weird is when your MAG isn't at its Racial Limit. Even if you only have 4 MAG and you drop your Essence from 6 to 5.9, you still lose 1 MAG because the Whole Number of your Essence dropped. The Whole Number of your Essence is thus your new Limit, and your MAG stays the same distance from the Limit regardless of how much you drop it. This is why taking Magic as Priority D (Adept) and then taking Wired Reflexes 2 is a bad idea. Your MAG Attribute then drops to 0 and you lose the ability to use Magic.[/spoiler]

The way this helps in Character Generation is when someone is, effectively, trying to "game the system". If you place Magic as C Priority as an Adept, you have 4 MAG. Lets say you're also an Elf, so Metatype at D, which gives you 0 Special Attribute Points (SAPs). Now, you install Muscle Toner (Standard) 2 for a .5 Essence cost, dropping your Essence to 5.5 and your Magic to 3. At this point all you can do to raise it back up to 4 (since 5 is your new Limit) is spend Karma.

Now, lets say you took Magic (Adept) as C Priority and Metatype as F (Human). Magic (Adept) at C gives you 4 MAG, and Metatype (Human) at F gives you 1 SAP. Now you install Muscle Toner (Standard) 2 for .5 Essence, dropping your Essence to 5.5 and your Magic to 3. Now you can spend that SAP in MAG and bring it back up to 4, effectively getting around the Essence Loss to MAG (although your Limit is still lower).

Hopefully that made sense!

[Duellist_D]

I doubt thats legal.
At the point where you can buy Implants (Step 5), you would already had spend all your Attribute and Special Points (Step 2).

[kyoto kid]

...it did, but again, that strategy wouldn't work as I'd have to take resources at priority B to afford any bio, thus having to assign either skills or attributes at priority D. which would totally crock an adept build.

The Karma build system actually worked pretty well, it's just too bad that in the Chummer generator it's broken in this respect. I did post about it in the Chummer 5e thread. Once they get it fixed it wouldn't be too hard to shift some points around to get the MA of 4 legitimately.  Again I only need about 164,000¥ in resources for the build not the full 275,000¥. In the Point build system, that's a 56 Karma difference which would pay for both restoring the two levels of MA lost to the implants and Adept Quality.

[kyoto kid]

I doubt thats legal.
At the point where you can buy Implants (Step 5), you would already had spend all your Attribute and Special Points (Step 2).

...I don't think there's any "hard fast" rule that requires you to follow the sequence of: Metatype -> Attributes -> Qualities -> Skills -> Gear/Augmentations -> Spells/Powers.  It's just set up that way to make it easy for people to follow.  I've never built a character like that in any version. As long as all the numbers jive that's all that matters.  Using an automated character generator pretty much makes it difficult to make mistakes in calculations or cheat.

The Point Build system also  ignores all that anyway as you just have a single pool of Karma to work with.

[ZeldaBravo]

The build order IS important.  Duelist_D is totally right.

[ZeldaBravo]

The Point Build system also  ignores all that anyway as you just have a single pool of Karma to work with.

That's the reason why you cannot ignore that in prio. You have different pools. Don't mix them.

[Soahl]

I doubt thats legal.
At the point where you can buy Implants (Step 5), you would already had spend all your Attribute and Special Points (Step 2).

Yeah, it definitely doesn't follow the Step Order (which is kind of foundational to the Priority System) and so is definitely illegal. My intent was to clarify advice people seem to give regularly since it's usually always given in half-vague terms, likely for this particular reason. For Homebrew games it might not be important even then! Who knows!

It's just a shame that HeroLab and Chummer5 don't enforce the Step Order. I guess there are just some things only Paper and Pencil can do.