[Whiskeyjack]

5th edition has very much been an edition of tech, I have said so several times before, but others for whatever reason disagree.

Tech is certainly good, but parts of it took a hit due to the changed core costs over last edition.

The only real hit to magic is the ubiquity of background count.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

...I read through the Background Count Rules (P 32 Street Grimiore) and for several situations, the rulings sounded rather vague and inconclusive. For example in one part it mentions

"A foci will not activate in a background count".

So does that mean a count of 1 will not allow a focus to be activated no matter what it's force is?

A major part of the discussion seems to centre around types of backgrounds, anchored/quickened spells, and astral actions like assensing, perception, tracking and combat as well as Acclimation and Alignment..

It does mention that a background count "imposes" a negative dice penalty on skill tests that use "active" adept powers like Killing Hands or Improved Sense as well as the fact an adept can turn off a "passive" power (which Improved Reflexes falls under) if the penalty exceeds the "bonuses gained from their powers". For Improved Reflexes, that "bonus"  is both +1d6 and +1 to Reaction per rating of the power.   So, based on the wording in the BC rules, it can easily sound as if someone with IR 2 walks into a background count of 3, the "bonuses" from the power.would be exceeded by the penalty and the power would not grant the bonus.

As I am still new to 5th ed (the last version I played with any regularity was 3rd and that was almost a decade ago), I find it confusing and again, somewhat vague as few specific examples are illustrated and none in the case of the adept initiative power..

During the session earlier this week I couldn't get a concrete answer on this and other questions I had (after being told my character would be negatively affected by the CZ's background count) due to the time constraints we were under (only 4 hours) to complete the mission at hand, so I hope you can understand my frustration on this matter.

Missions errata/FAQ posted here in the forums tells you exactly what background affects. Initiative is not one of them. The foci only shut off if the background is equal or higher the the foci's force.

Edit: Background counts greater than foci's force are affected.

[ZeldaBravo]

Initiative is not a test and therefore not subject to BGC.

I believe Bull said something about that specific topic.

[Whiskeyjack]

Yeah I'd probably never play awakened in games set in Chicago or Boston. I hate this edition's background count but these locations just make it even more punishing.

[Beta]

Yeah I'd probably never play awakened in games set in Chicago or Boston. I hate this edition's background count but these locations just make it even more punishing.

The Shaman in my game found that magic trivialized some substantial parts of  Boston: Lockdown.  Background count was a constant drag, but for avoiding the grind of headcases the mix of illusions, invisibility, silence, spirits, and levitation just made a lot of things that seem to have been intended as hard instead be easy.  Granted that he will be making it up to his ally spirit for a good while, and heck the spirit world in general.  But you know, made enough money that buying the ally his own souped up racing bike was a pretty easy expense, and that was a decent first step to showing his good intentions.

But rougher on adepts, especially without adept centering.

[kyoto kid]

...I also received a definitive answer from my missions group. So at least that isn't hosed. 

However, not pleased that she paid 14,000¥/6 K for what effectively becomes a 1,000¥ mundane Katana and her 2 Qi foci are each just pretty 6,000¥ tattoos (especially as I chose resources over metatype).

Did some messing around and rebuilt her as a Bio-Adept (4 magic 2.65 essence in bio and a smartlink), but the most cost effective way to do so is to use the Karma build as it is easier to balance everything out without taking a huge hit assigning a low priority to something important.  Did have to purchase the Adept quality (rather than get it free under the priority system).

Basically I had 168,000¥ in resources, the attributes and skills came out pretty much the same (in a couple cases better with augmentation).  The only Adept powers she has are Improved Reflexes 2 and Combat sense 3.  No Foci to start with.

The augmentations were:

Smartlink, with Vision Magnification
Muscle Augmentation 1
Muscle Toner 2
Orthoskin 3 (total 19 armour)
Tetrachromatic Vision (+3 to visual perception and reduce darkness penalties by one level).

Gave her the same weapons and armour (though the Jacket has YNT softweave)

Attributes:  BOD: 4,  AGI: 5 (7), REA: 4 (6), STR: 4 (5), CHA: 2, INT: 5, LOG: 2, WIL: 5, EDG: 3, MAG: 4, ESS: 4.35
Initiative 9 (11) + 3d6.

Limits - Physical: 7, Mental: 5 (7 Visual Perception), Social: 5.

Positive Qualities:
Adept
Agile Defender
Natural Athlete
Perceptive I

Negative Qualities:
Addiction (Mild - Betel)
Albinisim II
Distinctive Style
Prejudiced (Common Biased - Elves)

SkIlls

Blades (Swords): 6 - Pool: 13 (15)
Etiquette: 2 - Pool: 4
Longarms (Sniper Rifles)  5  - Pool: 12 (14)
Perception: 5  - Pool: 11 (14/16 visual)
Pistols (Revolvers) 5  - Pool: 12 (14)
Sneaking: (Urban) 5  - Pool: 12 (14)

Knowledge:

Area Knowledge Chicago 3  - Pool: 8
Gangs: 4 - Pool: 9
Tir Taringire 3 - Pool: 8
English 4 - Pool: 8  (apparently no "native" language under the Karma system)
Japanese: 3 - Pool: 8
Sperethieil: 2 - Pool: 7

Skill Group: Athletics 3

Gymnastics  Pool: 12
Running  Pool: 10
Swimming Pool: 8

Martial Art: Carramoleg - Technique: Iajutsu (yeah thought it would be interesting for the "Forsaken Daughter" of the TT to learn it's fighting style)

Unfortunately from what I read in the Missions FAQ (and I have the latest update, also searched the missions forum here) apparently only the Priority chargen system is being used.  Interesting experiment though.

[Whiskeyjack]

What can you give up to get a weapon focus?

[kyoto kid]

...not much as I tried to keep her as close as possible to the Priority build. She'd at least need a force 3, if not 4 to deal with elevated areas of BC.  So that's 21,000 - 28,000 and more importantly, 9 - 12 Karma to bond.  In the last mission she was on we ended up in an area where the BC was 4.  Like I have been mentioning, pure adepts have it pretty rough time of it in the CZ. About al they really can count on is their heightened Initiative and maybe Combat Sense, if that is taken at a a high enough rating (like 3 or 4). Effectively she now has 3 extra armour three extra dice for visual perception (not subject to noise) and two extra dice for defence/agility skill pools that won't suddenly "go away" as the would if they were powers.

Again this is all sort of moot as I don't think Karma Build characters are allowed in Missions. Haven't been able to find anything about it other than what is in the Chargen section of the Missions FAQ (and there it just mentions the Priority system).  Would have to take a big hit on either skills or attributes (taking Magic at priority C to get the MA of 4) as one of them would have to be assigned to Priority D to get enough resources (275,000¥)  to pay for all the bio she would need as well as her regular gear.  There is no way to get 4 magic and 140,000¥ as they both are Priority C. and taking Magic at D will only give her an MA of 3 as with Metatype at E, she would only get 1 special attribute point. She'd also need to dump 10 build Karma into Resources.reducing the Karma available for other needs.

[Halinn]

Again this is all sort of moot as I don't think Karma Build characters are allowed in Missions. Haven't been able to find anything about it other than what is in the Chargen section of the Missions FAQ (and there it just mentions the Priority system).

It's allowed. It's in the Run Faster section of the FAQ.

[kyoto kid]

..OK thanks, Just saw that.  Kind of expected to find it on the main discussion on Chargen which only mentions the Priority system.

That's good because there's a glitch in the Chummer chargen software that reduces MA by 'ware installed when using the Priority Build mode even if the character has a Magic Attribute lower than 6 (like 4). This does not occur with the Point (Karma) build mode.

Pretty hard to build a Bio-Adept on only D or E resources.

Also for this kind of hybrid build I think the Karma system is more efficient as it offers more flexibility. 

I used to use the alternate build point system in 2nd & 3rd ed. and found it to be better for as it wasn't so "min-maxed".

[Halinn]

That's good because there's a glitch in the Chummer chargen software that reduces MA by 'ware installed when using the Priority Build mode even if the character has a Magic lower than 6 (like 4). This does not occur in the Point (Karma) build mode.

Not a glitch. See p. 95 of core book. Probably priority is doing something wrong, though.

edit: meant karmagen was doing it wrong, not priority

[Poindexter]

Personally, I really enjoy playing hamstrung characters sometimes. The struggle makes it all the more worth while. I used to read Thor comics back in the 80's/90's and the writers were just CONSTANTLY putting some kind of curse on him or screwing up the hammer, or turning him into a frog, etc. Made for some really dramatic scenes. As a result, I often gravitate toward characters that are fundamentally "fucked" in some way. Sometimes, ya just gotta go places you shouldn't ever go and do shit you have no business doing. That's life, Chummer.

I understand how a lot of people don't think that sort of thing is fun though.

[gradivus]

That's good because there's a glitch in the Chummer chargen software that reduces MA by 'ware installed when using the Priority Build mode even if the character has a Magic lower than 6 (like 4). This does not occur in the Point (Karma) build mode.

Not a glitch. See p. 95 of core book. Probably priority is doing something wrong, though.

Priority is doing it as per the magic section... lose a point of essence, lose a point of magic rating and maximum magic.

[kyoto kid]

....just checked that, bugger. So then the real glitch in the programme must be in the Point (Karma) build mode as it's letting me have a 4 magic and 1.6 essence of ware. Or is this an effect of using the Karma build system as it does not let me increase the Magic attribute beyond 4 with the 1.6 essence (rounded to 2) taken up by 'ware (nor does it let me take more than 2 essence of augmentation).

So the suggestions I read to take magic at a lower priority level (eg. lower attribute score) to get some bio were incorrect then as basically the resulting attribute score would be 1 (if I applied the 1 special attribute point from Priority E to it) which would be pretty useless a I couldn't even get Improved reflexes 1. After Positive qualities, the most the attribute could be raised to is 3

[kyoto kid]

Personally, I really enjoy playing hamstrung characters sometimes. The struggle makes it all the more worth while. I used to read Thor comics back in the 80's/90's and the writers were just CONSTANTLY putting some kind of curse on him or screwing up the hammer, or turning him into a frog, etc. Made for some really dramatic scenes. As a result, I often gravitate toward characters that are fundamentally "fucked" in some way. Sometimes, ya just gotta go places you shouldn't ever go and do shit you have no business doing. That's life, Chummer.

I understand how a lot of people don't think that sort of thing is fun though.

...I don't mind challenges, but when 80% of what the character is trained do is effectively neutralised all the time, it makes one (at least myself) ask what am I doing here?

Crikey, I already feel like a modern day "Job" in RL the way it is, would like one of the few diversions I pursue to be somewhat more enjoyable.