[falar]

The hardest thing about shooting a Force 9 spirit is that they're rolling at least 18 for Dodge and probably more like 20+. Let's say it's a Queen - then it's rolling 23 to dodge and 33 if it goes on Full Defense.

[Facemage]

We can safely assume that a F9 spirit has only 1-2 services and it is unbound (lol, try to bound F9 spirit). So, use banishing: 6 + 6  with edge (second chance). The spirit is defending with 9 dices and if you get more, it is gone. It's possible that the summoner uses the edge, which means on average 5 hits on the spirit's defense test => 10 drain. This is difficult but with increase drain stats spells you can get on average like 6 hits, so you do not die.

In bc6 this does not work anymore, fleeing is still a good option.

Buying Banishing 6 just on the off chance of needing to deal with a super high Force spirit is even more of a ludicrous opportunity cost than buying a missile launcher.

I typically select conjuring skill group 5, so I always have banishing. I need to put those skill group points to somewhere. YMMV.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

The hardest thing about shooting a Force 9 spirit is that they're rolling at least 18 for Dodge and probably more like 20+. Let's say it's a Queen - then it's rolling 23 to dodge and 33 if it goes on Full Defense.

That on the other hand is much harder to deal with. But our example spirit was asleep, so surprise attack maybe?

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Sorry for double post.

Theoretically we can get to dv 21 (troll adept/mystic adept) with max Str (15) +weapon foci Claymore + crit strike (blades). But how functional it would be in game play is fully debatable. Again, such a character would be highly initiated with insane amounts of karma.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Can you even banish a bug spirit? I don't think they play by those rules.

I don't know why not? I can't remember seeing anything saying you can't banish or disrupt them.

Street Grimoire p195 Inhabitation, under the first paragraph it says they can't be banished. Part of what makes bug spirits so fucking scary is they can only be disrupted (via damage) or actually destroyed to get rid of them.

[ProfessorCirno]

Small reminder that weapon foci ignore basically all magical defenses, aka "the only thing spirits have standing between them and deadsville."  There's a reason melee adepts are the #1 spirit killers.  And vampires, too.  They turn to mist?  Just kinda vaguely wave your sword around in the mist and laugh when it pierces through all immunities and regeneration, leading to it suddenly raining dead vamp bits.

[Whiskeyjack]

Can you even banish a bug spirit? I don't think they play by those rules.

I don't know why not? I can't remember seeing anything saying you can't banish or disrupt them.

Street Grimoire p195 Inhabitation, under the first paragraph it says they can't be banished. Part of what makes bug spirits so fucking scary is they can only be disrupted (via damage) or actually destroyed to get rid of them.

Thanks!

[Mirikon]

Small reminder that weapon foci ignore basically all magical defenses, aka "the only thing spirits have standing between them and deadsville."  There's a reason melee adepts are the #1 spirit killers.  And vampires, too.  They turn to mist?  Just kinda vaguely wave your sword around in the mist and laugh when it pierces through all immunities and regeneration, leading to it suddenly raining dead vamp bits.

Two points, Cirno.

1) Melee adepts are only good for killing spirits that are stupid enough to get within melee range. Many have ranged abilities, meaning they can shoot you from down the hall, duck through a wall, fly behind you, and shoot you down the hall again and again.

2) Sorry, but a vamp in mist form can also move in three dimensions. Moving up into the air vents is a favorite choice, as it allows them to slip out of harm's way easily enough.

That being said, magic does indeed counter magical threats. But melee adepts are too limited to be #1. That spot falls to a trained combat mage with both offensive spells and a weapon focus. Because being able to cause magical damage in melee and at range is what you need when your enemies can move in three dimensions.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Can you even banish a bug spirit? I don't think they play by those rules.

I don't know why not? I can't remember seeing anything saying you can't banish or disrupt them.

Street Grimoire p195 Inhabitation, under the first paragraph it says they can't be banished. Part of what makes bug spirits so fucking scary is they can only be disrupted (via damage) or actually destroyed to get rid of them.

Thanks!

No problem. Glad to be of help.

[Rift_0f_Bladz]

Small reminder that weapon foci ignore basically all magical defenses, aka "the only thing spirits have standing between them and deadsville."  There's a reason melee adepts are the #1 spirit killers.  And vampires, too.  They turn to mist?  Just kinda vaguely wave your sword around in the mist and laugh when it pierces through all immunities and regeneration, leading to it suddenly raining dead vamp bits.

Two points, Cirno.

1) Melee adepts are only good for killing spirits that are stupid enough to get within melee range. Many have ranged abilities, meaning they can shoot you from down the hall, duck through a wall, fly behind you, and shoot you down the hall again and again.

2) Sorry, but a vamp in mist form can also move in three dimensions. Moving up into the air vents is a favorite choice, as it allows them to slip out of harm's way easily enough.

That being said, magic does indeed counter magical threats. But melee adepts are too limited to be #1. That spot falls to a trained combat mage with both offensive spells and a weapon focus. Because being able to cause magical damage in melee and at range is what you need when your enemies can move in three dimensions.

Pure physical damage, yeah, melee adept for the win. Total spirit lockdown, combat mage (MysAd) has so many more options, including blasting it on the astral before it materializes. That said, if the melee adept can get to the spirit as it materializes (complex action) its boned. But, usually it is just as easy, if not easier to grease the mage, which equals no more spirit. Plus, mages are easier to drop.

[Mirikon]

True. But remember that the mage that summoned the spirit may not always be on site. This is especially true with bugs, shedim, and free spirits. So one shouldn't count on being able to geek the mage. This discussion basically boils down to a specialization versus generalization argument. A melee adept is very capable of taking on spirits that come within melee range, and is likely better at doing so than a combat mage or mystic adept. But once things pass out of melee range, the versatility of the combat mage or mystic adept makes them far superior to the melee adept in taking on spirits.

To use a football analogy, if you can stop the run but have no pass defense, you're going to get slaughtered. You gotta be able to defend against both the ground and the air games in order to win.

[Glyph]

One of the good things about melee adepts is that killing hands/weapon foci are magical attacks; they don't have to power through hardened armor and auto-soak rolls, because they completely negate immunity to normal weapons.

One of the bad things about melee adepts is that if a spirit has energy aura, you have to resist some serious damage if you hit.

[Tarislar]

Overcast Toxicwave........ it cures all spirit woes   

Okay maybe not all, but its a solid option.

[kyoto kid]

Force 9 Spirit = Ares Alpha + Handloaded APDS rounds (12P, AP -6) + Full Auto Complex + Gyo Mount/Shock Pad.

From what I can tell, that would actually be fairly decent opening strike. With a half-optimized pool (Agility 6 + Automatics 6 + Assault Rifles 2 + Smartgun 2), you're looking at 18 vs 14 to hit, so decent odds. If we go full charOp on this, we've got a Steel Lynx with the Ares Alpha mounted, but we'll need Gas Vent 1 at least instead of the Gyro Mount/Shock Pad. Then it'll be Logic 8 + Gunnery 6 + Ballistics 2 + Smartgun 2 + Hotsim 2 + Control Rig 3 for 23 vs 14 to hit. Add in a bevy of  Noizquitos with hold-out pistols for the express purpose of just reducing the dodge pool and you might be able to take it.

As this is in missions:

Scratch the hand loaded APDS as Hard Targets is still 30 days from being approved.

Scratch the Nozquitos as Rigger 5 is still under Missions review.

[kyoto kid]

We can safely assume that a F9 spirit has only 1-2 services and it is unbound (lol, try to bound F9 spirit). So, use banishing: 6 + 6  with edge (second chance). The spirit is defending with 9 dices and if you get more, it is gone. It's possible that the summoner uses the edge, which means on average 5 hits on the spirit's defense test => 10 drain. This is difficult but with increase drain stats spells you can get on average like 6 hits, so you do not die.

In bc6 this does not work anymore, fleeing is still a good option.

Buying Banishing 6 just on the off chance of needing to deal with a super high Force spirit is even more of a ludicrous opportunity cost than buying a missile launcher.

Can you even banish a bug spirit? I don't think they play by those rules.

Best bet is using the Barrett model 122 with Bullseye double tap and ADPS for AP -22 ((-6*3)+-4). What harden armor? Now it soaks 14Dv +net hits with just body. When you go bug hunting, you bring the big toys.

...in this situation, a Barrett 122 with APDS would have been the right answer (well maybe besides a drone with a 5 AGMs). Still would require a good roll to counter any attempts by the spirit to dodge.  Pre edge the test and limits don't apply any more and quite possibly it would be taken out with one shot.