[Dampfish]

A bit of an odd phrase, but I need some help convincing my players of Shadowruns' take on the concept of orks and trolls.
They're all relatively new to Shadowrun and they all come from playing fantasy RPG's whose interpretation of orks range from Peter Jacksons mutilated elves style all the way to Warhammers greenskinned mushroom-people, and anything in between. In other words, they are used (one might almost say indoctrinated) to thinking of orks as nothing but ugly, mindless hordes of cannonfodder.
Which could become problematic, seeing as how I'm planning to take them through the Ork Underground storyline.
I can try to explain as much as I want (and I have) how orks look more or less just like more robust humans except with tusks and how the same is true for trolls, only even bigger and with added horns. But ultimately it all just ends up with my players saying they don't see it. Even after I show them the picture of the gunslinger adept in SR4A, trying to convince them that orks can be cute too, if you want them to

Does anyone have any tips for me? Or maybe even some pictures I can pull up during sessions that may help me convince them.
Anything would be appreciated!

[Control]

Let them be racist. Both races are frequently seen in a similar light by all the other races in SR world already. Show them that they are people to be treated equally through your story. Ork children playing at a local playground, and other innocent or normal behaviors may help see the light. Only picture I know of off the top of my head for what you're asking is the ork decker chick in the core book.

[Beta]

What Control said.  Also, "show, don't tell"  Let them meet reasonable Orcs, etc.

[Atlessa]

Also show them the cover of the SR5 Shadow Spells.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pngm6pc4ot65pji/SSP-cover.png?dl=0

If that's not a cute Ork, then I've never seen one.

[Whiskeyjack]

Show them how Humanis is basically the KKK where most orcs and trolls just want to be left alone and try to eke out a living for themselves and their families, and I bet they'll start to think more deeply on the subject.

[psycho835]

Also show them the cover of the SR5 Shadow Spells.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/pngm6pc4ot65pji/SSP-cover.png?dl=0

If that's not a cute Ork, then I've never seen one.

That's a troll. Orks don't have horns.

As for the players, I agree with the rest - let the players be racist hoops, if they want to. Just make sure they face the consequences of being racist hoops.

[Raven2049]

either that or make them take the quality Prejudiced - Outspoken against Trolls/Orcs and  again, make sure they RP it out. and all trolls and orcs that interact with them are hostile towards them after they figure out that their prejudiced.

I want to see the interaction with Tosh Athack during those missions.... his Policemen Ball ticket prices will be outrageous 

[Dampfish]

It's not so much that they're 'racist,' per se, and more of a problem of perception. It's just that they have the wrong image of what orks are in Shadowrun. As a GM when I say to them "You see an ork" they picture a giant green-skinned brute whose too stupid to even know how to get out of the way of an attack

But all helpful suggestions
I've had them do a few simple jobs just to get a feel for the system, and we're just about to wrap up Copycat Killer and I plan to run Back In Business before we'll take on the Ork Underground story proper. And they have somewhat regular contact with at least one reasonable ork since I decided to make MacAllister "their" fixer (doing Copycat as a sort of favour for a friend type-thing).
So they at least understand that orks aren't the typical brutes or generic enemies they are in other games (or, I hope so anyway, if I've done my job right). But every so often in out of game talk it appears they still hold on to the idea of the "classic" ork look (they give me weird glances whenever I say something like a white/asian/african-american ork ).
Was hoping I could make them shake that.

EDIT:

either that or make them take the quality Prejudiced - Outspoken against Trolls/Orcs and  again, make sure they RP it out. and all trolls and orcs that interact with them are hostile towards them after they figure out that their prejudiced.

I want to see the interaction with Tosh Athack during those missions.... his Policemen Ball ticket prices will be outrageous 

As a matter of fact, one of them did take the Prejudiced quality. Against trolls. She's a 1.2m tall gnome...
But as I recall it, it was because she (as a player) don't like trolls in any setting, and she needed some more BP.
Anyway, luckily for her she succeeded the roll to keep from mouthing-off against Tosh. Begrudgingly, I might add. Although I think she realized all the odds were against her, badly

[Whiskeyjack]

I would definitely give them a primer about Goblinization before I just started slapping them with NQs. It's easy coming from other media to carry these assumptions, particularly LotR.

When you break it down that these are people, and are oppressed for largely the same reasons that other minority groups have been oppressed throughout history and into the present, then the players can more consciously decide whether they want their characters to be humanocentrist (which is fair if they want to play that and deal with the consequences) or not.

But I think it's better that humanocentrism be a conscious choice that a player takes on than something they just fall into due to ignorance/preconceptions. The fact is that orks and trolls are metahuman (meaning, at their core, that they're human beings with some extreme phenotypical expression due to the world's mana levels). And being criminals with no valid ID and therefore no protection under the law, a lot of runners can relate to feeling oppressed and looking more than skin deep before forming an opinion.

EDIT: yeah if they see all orks as like green monsters and are confused when you describe one as Asian, then they are not viewing them as fundamentally (meta)human and they are Doing It Wrong.

[Wakshaani]

For what it's worth, this is a problem with new Shadowrun artists as well. The art guys get back a lot of work featuring green Orks instead of normal human flesh tones. It usually only happens once, maybe twice, before they're on point. 40K looms large in the minds of all.

(At least we don't get 1st ed pig-headed Orcs!)

[Whiskeyjack]

Side note you totally CAN have a green ork using geneware from Chrome Flesh or maybe a Metagenic SURGE quality, but it's not the default. And it could just as easily result in a purple human or red dwarf, etc.

[Dampfish]

Yeah if they see all orks as like green monsters and are confused when you describe one as Asian, then they are not viewing them as fundamentally (meta)human and they are Doing It Wrong.

For what it's worth, this is a problem with new Shadowrun artists as well. The art guys get back a lot of work featuring green Orks instead of normal human flesh tones. It usually only happens once, maybe twice, before they're on point. 40K looms large in the minds of all.

(At least we don't get 1st ed pig-headed Orcs!)

Exactly, therein lies my problem.
It sounds like you guys may have had something similar? How did you handle it?

[nylanfs]

url=http://elementsheep.deviantart.com/art/Shortcake-262957239]Here you go.[/url] this may help.

[Atlessa]

Here you go. this may help.

fix'd

[Deadborder]

Side note you totally CAN have a green ork using geneware from Chrome Flesh or maybe a Metagenic SURGE quality, but it's not the default. And it could just as easily result in a purple human or red dwarf, etc.

Hobgoblins also have green skin. Probably not helping, but hey, worth knowing