[zarzak]

For normal builds you can't take way of the burnout, biocompatibility and prototype transhuman out of chargen, as thats 30 karma worth of qualities ... you're limited to 25.

Technically Ways aren't qualities, per dev statements.  Or don't count as qualities for somethings.  Hopefully there is some errata someday clearing up precisely what that means.  Costs post chargen or if it counts as part of the 25 point limit.  But, yes can't have all three, not that you'd have the Nuyen.

*Really*.  I didn't know that.

Doesn't change that much though ... but its fun to know.

So you could have ...

Burnout Way
Transhuman Prototype
Biocompatability
Mentor Spirit

And be "OK".  Of course you'd need the full 25 points of negative qualities, I imagine ...

[UnLimiTeD]

Well, Ways don't get more expensive after Char Gen.
I think it was said they should be handled like Martial Arts, and MAs are counted against the limit.

[ZeldaBravo]

For normal builds you can't take way of the burnout, biocompatibility and prototype transhuman out of chargen, as thats 30 karma worth of qualities ... you're limited to 25.

Technically Ways aren't qualities, per dev statements.  Or don't count as qualities for somethings.  Hopefully there is some errata someday clearing up precisely what that means.  Costs post chargen or if it counts as part of the 25 point limit.  But, yes can't have all three, not that you'd have the Nuyen.

tl;dr - You must pay the karma cost, but they don't count against the P/N Qualities karma limit. Ways and some other stuff like Infection are Qualities, but they are not Positive Qualities or Negative Qualities.

[adzling]

urm i thought the same thing re: martial arts and ways.
they are both qualities that count towards the positive quality limit in chargen but neither cost double post chargen.
that's about it.

it also happens to be the way hero lab implements it, which is not gospel and they do make mistakes but on the whole they are very accurate.

[zarzak]

urm i thought the same thing re: martial arts and ways.
they are both qualities that count towards the positive quality limit in chargen but neither cost double post chargen.
that's about it.

it also happens to be the way hero lab implements it, which is not gospel and they do make mistakes but on the whole they are very accurate.

Not to get off topic, but ... I thought martial arts were just a karma expenditure, not a quality ... where does it say that they are a quality?

*Edit* I think I answered my question ... they aren't.

Standard characters are limited to 25 karma of positive qualities.  You can take 27 karma of martial arts to start.  There's no way they can count as positive qualities ...also the book says nothing about that being the case.

[UnLimiTeD]

No, you can take 7 Karma of Martial Arts and 20 Karma of extra Maneuvers, which are not new martial arts.
It's not really explicitly said anywhere, this is the only description I have.

[Medicineman]

Not to get off topic, but ... I thought martial arts were just a karma expenditure, not a quality ... where does it say that they are a quality?

in Run & Gun
Martial Arts is a Quality (which does NOT cost Double after Char Creation)
when Buying it you get 1 Maneuver for Free, all other Maneuvers from that MA cost 5 Karma

with a Martial Dance
Medicineman

[prionic6]

I just checked, Run & Gun does not say that martial arts styles or techniques are Qualities. They are completely separate.

[zarzak]

Not to get off topic, but ... I thought martial arts were just a karma expenditure, not a quality ... where does it say that they are a quality?

in Run & Gun
Martial Arts is a Quality (which does NOT cost Double after Char Creation)
when Buying it you get 1 Maneuver for Free, all other Maneuvers from that MA cost 5 Karma

with a Martial Dance
Medicineman

It only says they are "styles" not "qualities".  But ... these books are so full of omissions/contradictions who knows. 

[Rule of Three]

I am trying to incorporate this quality into an adept and having a heck of a time.

Ideally, he is a few things:
1) Elven
2) With friends in high places (I have to try this quality out!)
3) Maybe a pair of cybereyes to boot (for story reasons mostly).

I liked the idea of him being A Gunner / Face but am having a heck of a time making it work and not be missing "the shadowrun basics" (gear, perception, etc).  Any suggestions?

[Whiskeyjack]

Being a mundane face will make things easier. The only real thing you lose out on is Commanding Voice. Everything else is nice but not strictly necessary. It's easy enough to be an elf throwing 20-22 dice with a social limit of 11 before Tailored Pheromones.

[Rule of Three]

I figured the Gunslinging part would fit better as an adept? The eyes or what-have-you cyber bits would be for some minor story telling / compensation for loss.

Even if I lost an essence to Cyberware (+1 more from the bioware of this thread), I figure it was better than naught, but if Mudnane is the best option... i'll give it a shot.

[Whiskeyjack]

Well it just gives you something to easily slot at priority E.

I would swing the other way and go full bore cyber. Low Essence penalizes your Social Limit by at most 2 and it's easy to have gear and implants that provide a total of +5 to that Limit, for a net gain of +3 (or about 14, which is way more than necessary). With Transhuman Prototyoe you can try to afford Muscle Toner and/or Tailored Pheromones at a baseline then just add Wired Reflexes, an implanted smartlink, orthoskin, and bone lacing. Easy enough to get a character who can throw a punch, shoot, sight, sneak, and talk.

[Rule of Three]

You know, in my years of playing, never did a chromer... I really enjoy the growth potential of magic. I guess there is a first time for everything though.

I'll give it a shot; it doesn't seem too rough

Thanks!

[sn0mm1s]

For normal builds you can't take way of the burnout, biocompatibility and prototype transhuman out of chargen, as thats 30 karma worth of qualities ... you're limited to 25.

Technically Ways aren't qualities, per dev statements.  Or don't count as qualities for somethings.  Hopefully there is some errata someday clearing up precisely what that means.  Costs post chargen or if it counts as part of the 25 point limit.  But, yes can't have all three, not that you'd have the Nuyen.

tl;dr - You must pay the karma cost, but they don't count against the P/N Qualities karma limit. Ways and some other stuff like Infection are Qualities, but they are not Positive Qualities or Negative Qualities.

Do you guys have a link to this?