[8-bit]

-- Priorities --
Metatype D (Human)
Attributes A
Magic E
Skills C
Resources B

-- Karma Expenditure --
25 Starting Karma
-25 Positive Qualities
+25 Negative Qualities
-2 Etiquette from 0 to 1
-6 Heavy Weapons from 0 to 2
-7 Grenade Launchers Specialization
-2 Locksmith from 0 to 1
-6 Palming from 0 to 2
-2 Pilot Ground Craft from 0 to 1

0 Remaining

-- Attributes --
Body 5
Agility 6 (8)
Reaction 5 (8)
Strength 1 (3)
Willpower 5
Logic 2
Intuition 5
Charisma 3
Edge 5
Essence 0.7200

Initiative - 10 (13) + 1d6 (2d6)
Physical Condition Monitor - 11
Stun Condition Monitor - 11
Overflow Boxes - 5
Physical Limit - 7
Mental Limit - 5
Social Limit - 4

-- Qualities --
Agile Defender (-3 Karma)
Catlike (-7 Karma)
Restricted Gear - Alphaware Titanium Bone Lacing (-10 Karma)
Trust Fund (-5 Karma)
Allergy - Uncommon, Mild (+5 Karma)
In Debt - 25,000 nuyen (+5 Karma)
SINner - National (+5 Karma)
Weak Immune System (+10 Karma)

-- Skills --
Automatics 6 (+2 Assault Rifles) - dice pool of 14 (16)
Con 6 (+2 Fast Talk) - dice pool of 9 (11)
Etiquette 1 - dice pool of 4
Heavy Weapons 2 (+2 Grenade Launchers) - dice pool of 10 (12)
Locksmith 1 - dice pool of 9
Palming 2 - dice pool of 10
Perception 6 (+2 Visual) - dice pool of 11 (13)
Pilot Ground Craft 1 - dice pool of 9
Sneaking 6 (+2 Urban) - dice pool of 16 (18)

-- Skill Groups --
Athletics 2

-- Knowledge/Language Skills --
16 points TBD

-- Augmentations --
Alphaware Titanium Bone Lacing
Alphaware Rating 3 Cybereyes w/ Flare Compensation, Low-Light Vision, Smartlink, Thermographic Vision, Vision Enhancement 2, Vision Magnification
Alphaware Datajack
Alphaware Muscle Replacement 2
Alphaware Reaction Enhancers 2
Alphaware Wired Reflexes 1

-- Gear --
Custom Ballistic Mask w/ Audio Enhancement Rating 3, Biomonitor, Gas Mask, Micro-Transceiver
Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger w/ Custom Fit,, Electrochromic Clothing, Newest Model, Nonconductivity 4, Ruthenium Polymer Coating 3, Thermal Damping 6
Ares Alpha w/ Personalized Grip, Silencer, Sling, Internal Smartgun, 3 Spare Clips, Underbarrel Launcher
Remington Suppressor w/ Concealed Quick-Draw Holster, Personalized Grip, Internal Smartgun, Sound Suppressor, 3 Spare Clips
Machine Pistol Ammunition: 120 Regular, 120 Stick-n-Shock, 60 Flechette, 15 Laes Capsule, 45 Narcoject Capsule
Assault Rifle Ammunition: 252 Regular, 126 Stick-n-Shock, 84 Flechette, 84 APDS, 70 Narcoject Capsule
Grenades: 4 Flashbang, 4 Fragmentation, 4 High-Explosive, 8 Smoke
Rating 6 Medkit
Rating 6 Autopicker
Crowbar
Transys Avalon Commlink w/ Sim Module
3 Meta Link Commlinks
Micro-transceiver
5 doses of Kamikaze
5 doses of Long Haul
Gas Mask
Survival Kit
4 Silver, 4 Standard Credsticks
Rating 4 Fake SIN w/ Rating 4 Fake License (Automatic Weapons), Rating 4 Fake License (Concealed Carry Permit), Rating 4 Fake License (Driver's License), Rating 4 Fake License (Restricted Cyberware)
Suzuki Mirage w/ Chameleon Coating, Morphing License Plate, Spoof Chips
Middle Lifestyle (Trust Fund)
Low Lifestyle (1 Month)

Remaining Money -  319 + (4d6 x 100)

-- Contacts --
12 points TBD


I've been playing around with Sum to 10 recently, just to see what's possible. Any thoughts, suggestions?

[Whiskeyjack]

Looks good overall.

I don't know what you're getting out of STR. Looks like nothing but Recoil. Correct me if I'm wrong. Just take Used Muscle Toner instead - it's more expensive but costs less Essence (which you could use for other things).

You could probably lose a point of LOG and not miss it. I'd try to get to BOD 5 if you could. Even better if you can squeeze in Bone Aug.

Armorer 1 is doing absolutely nothing for you. With a pool of 4 it's even worse and you don't want to have to Edge every time. But if you don't think you'll use it often, a contact might work just as well.

You should probably buy a point of Etiquette.

I would get rid of Weak Immune System and figure out a way to get Wired Reflexes or Used Reaction Enhancers. A sam cannot get away with a +1d6. You want to be hitting +3d6.

Datajacks are not that expensive. I wouldn't go used on it because it unnecessarily eats Essence.

[8-bit]

I don't know what you're getting out of STR. Looks like nothing but Recoil. Correct me if I'm wrong. Just take Used Muscle Toner instead - it's more expensive but costs less Essence (which you could use for other things).

Physical Limit mostly. Not really needed, looking back at it. The reason for the Muscle Replacement is the nuyen cost. I don't have that much money to work with. I am thinking that I could drop Strength down to 1 though; use those points elsewhere, like Body or Willpower.

You could probably lose a point of LOG and not miss it. I'd try to get to BOD 5 if you could. Even better if you can squeeze in Bone Aug.

You're right.

Armorer 1 is doing absolutely nothing for you. With a pool of 4 it's even worse and you don't want to have to Edge every time. But if you don't think you'll use it often, a contact might work just as well.

Armorer, in my experience, is never useful. It is needed to make your own Capsule Rounds (which I think is annoying, but c'est la vie). That's literally the only reason I take it.

You should probably buy a point of Etiquette.

It's probably not a bad idea; my pool is still going to be bad though.

I would get rid of Weak Immune System and figure out a way to get Wired Reflexes or Used Reaction Enhancers. A sam cannot get away with a +1d6. You want to be hitting +3d6.

Well, Weak Immune System would only make more sense at that point. I'm just curious, why get rid of it? I can't honestly remember the last time I got hit with a pathogen in a Shadowrun game.

Honestly, I'm not sure what to classify this guy as. He's not really a Street Sam, but he's not like a Weapons Specialist. I don't know. I don't think I can fit Wired Reflexes in (either nuyen or Essence-wise), and the Reaction Enhancers are nice, but probably going to be difficult to fit in nuyen-wise. I have Essence to spare, and can easily make room for more, but I just don't have a large enough pool of money to work with.

Datajacks are not that expensive. I wouldn't go used on it because it unnecessarily eats Essence.

If I need the Essence space, I just switch it to Alphaware. I didn't think I needed the space, at the moment, so I didn't bother.

[Whiskeyjack]

A pool of 6 for Etiquette is 2 bought hits, or if it's really critical you DO have that Edge 7 to throw in as well. That said I think I've seen Etiquette rolled under 10 times (maybe even under 5 times) in the 8 years I've played Shadowrun.

Oh, I thought Weak Immune System affected ware Essence costs.

With Initiative, you definitely have the Edge to spare with Blitz, but the ability to do that really depends on fights per day your GM throws at you and other Edge needs, like post-Edging a dodge roll to avoid auto-fire or whatnot.

[8-bit]

Made a few changes:

- Replaced Armorer with Etiquette.
- Dropped Strength to 1 (4)
- Dropped Logic to 2
- Dropped Charisma to 3
- Raised Body to 5
- Raised Willpower to 5

I'm going to have to do some math before messing with the augmentations. Although, with Body 5 and Willpower 5, I can try to go for some Kamikaze.

[Hobbes]

Sexy seven Edge guy is sexy.  You may be better off with Attributes B and Resources B.  4 stat points for 135k Nuyen?   That seems like it would work out in your favor by the end.  At least let you pick up enough initiative boosts so you're not burning edge every turn.  Edge 7 you're really wanting to save those for Push the Limit, 'cause that's your bit.  7 times per game you win.   

[halflingmage]

On the subject of Etiquette, I like to have characters end up with a pool of 4 or more.  At that level you are not going to be using it proactively, but you can buy a hit, which I take to mean you have basic social skills covered.  It keeps your typical 2 chr troll from making a moron of himself at the meet or when you are hanging out in a bar. 

[All4BigGuns]

I see no plausible justification for having a 5 Body but only a 1 Strength before the implant modifies it. Someone so healthy, robust and tough would have to work hard to achieve that, and thus would be at least at the average (rating of 3) in Strength. More likely a 4, but a 3 is plausible.

[prionic6]

Armorer (like all b&r skills) is pretty cool for flavor but not that useful... Until you roll a critical glitch and your gun jams.

[halflingmage]

I see no plausible justification for having a 5 Body but only a 1 Strength before the implant modifies it. Someone so healthy, robust and tough would have to work hard to achieve that, and thus would be at least at the average (rating of 3) in Strength. More likely a 4, but a 3 is plausible.

I see these type of arguments come up from time to time, often in the form of 1 logic characters are so stupid they have to be lead around on a leash.  I personally don't buy such things.  Lift and carry checks(in my option a good general gauge of physical power) are str+body.  This character would come in at a 6, average for human.  The high body low strength ratio would mean you have someone who has alot of endurance but not alot of burst strength.  They never learned to throw a good punch, and the lower physical limit means they are not that naturally athletic.  On the other hand, they have alot of staying power.  Maybe they just get in a lot of cardio combined with natural tenacity and really good bone structure.  Look at all the numbers and see what story they tell before you start telling players they can't have a particular combination. 

[Hobbes]

I see no plausible justification for having a 5 Body but only a 1 Strength before the implant modifies it. Someone so healthy, robust and tough would have to work hard to achieve that, and thus would be at least at the average (rating of 3) in Strength. More likely a 4, but a 3 is plausible.

Attempting to quantify the entire spectrum of human ability into a single number that ranges from 1 to 7 is pure silly.  Don't read more into a stat then its how many dice you roll for certain tests, and whatever secondary calculations that stat figures into.  Its an abstraction don't get too hung up on it.

For non-dice rolling RP moments use it as a gauge as to how a character compares to other (N)PCs, or for non-dice rolling descriptive moments.  The Troll lifts the heavy sewer grate, the face always gets the waitress's phone number, the Decker knows that snow is an electric insulator, the low logic character gets the tip wrong, the low strength character has to struggle with a heavy load.  Just descriptions that set the scene, no real mechanical consequences. 

The other fun thing a GM can do with a low stat character is to play the stat up in a failed attempt or glitch.  Blow a driving test with a low str character, the brake petal was really hard to push down.  Blow a social roll with a low logic character, you said something stupid.  Miss an attack roll with a low Body, you're getting tired.  Lots of ways to RP low stats. 

[Whiskeyjack]

Armorer (like all b&r skills) is pretty cool for flavor but not that useful... Until you roll a critical glitch and your gun jams.

The likelihood of that on a character who actually is devoted to gun skills is infinitesimally low.

And if it happens, there's always Edge.

[All4BigGuns]

I see these type of arguments come up from time to time, often in the form of 1 logic characters are so stupid they have to be lead around on a leash.  I personally don't buy such things.  Lift and carry checks(in my option a good general gauge of physical power) are str+body.  This character would come in at a 6, average for human.  The high body low strength ratio would mean you have someone who has alot of endurance but not alot of burst strength.  They never learned to throw a good punch, and the lower physical limit means they are not that naturally athletic.  On the other hand, they have alot of staying power.  Maybe they just get in a lot of cardio combined with natural tenacity and really good bone structure.  Look at all the numbers and see what story they tell before you start telling players they can't have a particular combination.

I see no plausible justification for having a 5 Body but only a 1 Strength before the implant modifies it. Someone so healthy, robust and tough would have to work hard to achieve that, and thus would be at least at the average (rating of 3) in Strength. More likely a 4, but a 3 is plausible.

Attempting to quantify the entire spectrum of human ability into a single number that ranges from 1 to 7 is pure silly.  Don't read more into a stat then its how many dice you roll for certain tests, and whatever secondary calculations that stat figures into.  Its an abstraction don't get too hung up on it.

For non-dice rolling RP moments use it as a gauge as to how a character compares to other (N)PCs, or for non-dice rolling descriptive moments.  The Troll lifts the heavy sewer grate, the face always gets the waitress's phone number, the Decker knows that snow is an electric insulator, the low logic character gets the tip wrong, the low strength character has to struggle with a heavy load.  Just descriptions that set the scene, no real mechanical consequences. 

The other fun thing a GM can do with a low stat character is to play the stat up in a failed attempt or glitch.  Blow a driving test with a low str character, the brake petal was really hard to push down.  Blow a social roll with a low logic character, you said something stupid.  Miss an attack roll with a low Body, you're getting tired.  Lots of ways to RP low stats. 

Getting to the point where your endurance is that close to human maximum (especially playing a Human), their strength is naturally going to increase along with it. It is nowhere near out of line to expect a character with that level of endurance/toughness to have at least average Strength.

[8-bit]

I see no plausible justification for having a 5 Body but only a 1 Strength before the implant modifies it. Someone so healthy, robust and tough would have to work hard to achieve that, and thus would be at least at the average (rating of 3) in Strength. More likely a 4, but a 3 is plausible.

I eat healthily and take good care of my body without ever working out enough to go above my (augmented) Strength of 4. Perfectly reasonable justification. If that doesn't work for you, that's not my problem. I like to keep a little suspension of disbelief when it comes to the crunch parts of Shadowrun. After all, if we want to be strict about everything, how does someone who lived their entire life as a model citizen, never picking up a gun, somehow go into the shadows and learn Automatics 6 (+2 Assault Rifles)? I'm not saying that's what my character is, but I've seen backgrounds and skills that do not match up in any way, whatsoever. I've learned to just let it go.

Armorer (like all b&r skills) is pretty cool for flavor but not that useful... Until you roll a critical glitch and your gun jams.

The chance of rolling a critical glitch on 12 dice is about 0.011% or 1 in 11,000. 19 dice (which is what I would normally roll) is 0.00085% or 1 in 8,500,000. And it's not like a runner has the time to repair their gun while on a run. They'll just go to a contact (like, I don't know, an Arms Dealer) and get it fixed. Or, in the worst case scenario, buy a new gun. It's not like most guns are expensive enough that buying a new one is a big hit.

As Whiskeyjack said, failed that, there's always Edge.

Sexy seven Edge guy is sexy.  You may be better off with Attributes B and Resources B.  4 stat points for 135k Nuyen?   That seems like it would work out in your favor by the end.  At least let you pick up enough initiative boosts so you're not burning edge every turn.  Edge 7 you're really wanting to save those for Push the Limit, 'cause that's your bit.  7 times per game you win.   

That's another idea. I was thinking of possibly dropping Metatype down to D, but I lose that, frankly, amazing Edge 7. I'm just not exactly sure what to drop 4 points from if I do go with your suggestion. Any ideas, thoughts?

[Whiskeyjack]

Getting to the point where your endurance is that close to human maximum (especially playing a Human), their strength is naturally going to increase along with it. It is nowhere near out of line to expect a character with that level of endurance/toughness to have at least average Strength.

It's a good thing that the chargen rules don't require people to tie those stats together, then. If the writers had intended that, they would have written in such a rule. But they didn't.