[Top Dog]

Augmented means increased by cyberware and bioware. The force needs to equal or exceed the rating - augmented if that is the case - of the attribute when you cast the spell.

Look at the order and phrasing of the sentences. It first says that the force needs to be equal or higher then the (augmented) value. Okay, it's force 6, check. Then it says it increases (note: not augments) that value by net hits. Okay, 4 net hits, I increase it by 4.

The maximum is the Augmented Maximum, but that doesn't mean it's an augmentation - it just means that the limit is the same as that for augmentations.

[ShadowcatX]

That makes the spell significantly better.

[Danny Montanny]

Wouldn't the augmented value be what you are raising it to, thus generally a 9 or 10, depending how many successes you can get?

The (augmented) value is what the Attribute would be if it was (augmented). Which is why (augmented) values are presented as such and why there is an (augmented) maximum.

Which is what I'm saying. The force needs to equal or exceed the augmented value, thus casting it at force 6 still won't do anything, you'd want it at force 9 or 10.

Take the "(augmented)" word out of the rule and you get: "The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the value of the Attribute being affected." So if you were trying to use it on an augmented value, say someone with Muscle Toner with an Agility of 6(7), you'd only need to cast it as a Force 6 spell. As 6 is the value of the Attribute in question. When you add in (augmented) it makes it where you would have to cast it at a Force including the (augmented) value. So as a Force 7 in the example I used.

[Danny Montanny]

Using Bound spirits is a bad idea.

The "normal" sustaining option lasts for [Force] combat turns. That's for a service that costs somewhere around 500-1000 nuyen. Bad deal. There's another option that last some days - better option, but it hurts the force of the spirit and it makes spirit really really hate you. So, bad idea.

You could, if your tradition has them, bind a Spirit of Man and have it cast it for you (and then sustain it as normal). That uses the usual spell sustaining rules. That would either last forever or a day, depending on how nice your GM is (hint: it shouldn't be forever). Then it's cast at the Spirit's skill level though, so probably 12 dice (at force 6).

In all cases you need a force 6 spirit at the minimum. Summoning a F6 spirit is peanuts. Binding him is 3000k karma and an opposed roll vs 12 - so you need to max out binding, and/or use edge on the roll. If your GM allows it, (pre)edge the Summoning roll as well, since that's where the services will come from, and it's a flat cost depending on force per binding attempt - best to start with many services.

I figured as much. Does the F6 Spirit of Man have to be bound for him cast and sustain it on me? Cause if that's the case, I could just Summon one and have him cast it during the run and call it good until I get my focus. If not, then I dunno... My skills are already tight with no Karma. I really don't want to have to give up the Way. Either way, I'd have to switch traditions and it looks like the only one is Chaos, but that's no matter as it fits the concept pretty well.

[Danny Montanny]

How do these spells sound? I'd of course take out the Detection specialization, because with my Adept powers I have a lot of stuff covered.

Punch, Heal, Increase [Attribute] (INT), Improved Invisibility, Gecko Crawl, Mob Mind, and Sterilize.

[ZeldaBravo]

Using Bound spirits is a bad idea.

The "normal" sustaining option lasts for [Force] combat turns. That's for a service that costs somewhere around 500-1000 nuyen. Bad deal. There's another option that last some days - better option, but it hurts the force of the spirit and it makes spirit really really hate you. So, bad idea.

You could, if your tradition has them, bind a Spirit of Man and have it cast it for you (and then sustain it as normal). That uses the usual spell sustaining rules. That would either last forever or a day, depending on how nice your GM is (hint: it shouldn't be forever). Then it's cast at the Spirit's skill level though, so probably 12 dice (at force 6).

In all cases you need a force 6 spirit at the minimum. Summoning a F6 spirit is peanuts. Binding him is 3000k karma and an opposed roll vs 12 - so you need to max out binding, and/or use edge on the roll. If your GM allows it, (pre)edge the Summoning roll as well, since that's where the services will come from, and it's a flat cost depending on force per binding attempt - best to start with many services.

I figured as much. Does the F6 Spirit of Man have to be bound for him cast and sustain it on me? Cause if that's the case, I could just Summon one and have him cast it during the run and call it good until I get my focus. If not, then I dunno... My skills are already tight with no Karma. I really don't want to have to give up the Way. Either way, I'd have to switch traditions and it looks like the only one is Chaos, but that's no matter as it fits the concept pretty well.

IIRC The spirit needs to manifest in order to cast and then sustain spells on Material plane. That brings up some problems I guess.

[FrowningMirror]

How do these spells sound? I'd of course take out the Detection specialization, because with my Adept powers I have a lot of stuff covered.

Punch, Heal, Increase [Attribute] (INT), Improved Invisibility, Gecko Crawl, Mob Mind, and Sterilize.

Trid Phantasm should be here I think.

[Top Dog]

Using Bound spirits is a bad idea.

The "normal" sustaining option lasts for [Force] combat turns. That's for a service that costs somewhere around 500-1000 nuyen. Bad deal. There's another option that last some days - better option, but it hurts the force of the spirit and it makes spirit really really hate you. So, bad idea.

You could, if your tradition has them, bind a Spirit of Man and have it cast it for you (and then sustain it as normal). That uses the usual spell sustaining rules. That would either last forever or a day, depending on how nice your GM is (hint: it shouldn't be forever). Then it's cast at the Spirit's skill level though, so probably 12 dice (at force 6).

In all cases you need a force 6 spirit at the minimum. Summoning a F6 spirit is peanuts. Binding him is 3000k karma and an opposed roll vs 12 - so you need to max out binding, and/or use edge on the roll. If your GM allows it, (pre)edge the Summoning roll as well, since that's where the services will come from, and it's a flat cost depending on force per binding attempt - best to start with many services.

I figured as much. Does the F6 Spirit of Man have to be bound for him cast and sustain it on me? Cause if that's the case, I could just Summon one and have him cast it during the run and call it good until I get my focus. If not, then I dunno... My skills are already tight with no Karma. I really don't want to have to give up the Way. Either way, I'd have to switch traditions and it looks like the only one is Chaos, but that's no matter as it fits the concept pretty well.

Spirits of Man need not be bound, no. It's an optional power you give them (innate spellcasting). You do need to have the actual spell yourself, btw. So summoning works, but then the spirit has a -2 sustaining penalty so it'd be bad for anything else.
Also Zelda's point: it needs to manifest to cast. Whether or not it needs to stay on the material plane for the full duration is up for debate. Even if so, you can just stick it in your van/leave it at home. It might bring up some problems, but it's not uncircumventable.

[Danny Montanny]

Spirits of Man need not be bound, no. It's an optional power you give them (innate spellcasting). You do need to have the actual spell yourself, btw. So summoning works, but then the spirit has a -2 sustaining penalty so it'd be bad for anything else.
Also Zelda's point: it needs to manifest to cast. Whether or not it needs to stay on the material plane for the full duration is up for debate. Even if so, you can just stick it in your van/leave it at home. It might bring up some problems, but it's not incurcumventable.

It does say, "Innate Spell (any one spell known by the summoner; Force is limited by the spirit's Magic)" though. Unless that has been changed with errata. Either way I'll want it for when I can get the focus without having to spend an extra 5 karma to learn it.

Can a Mage sustain a spell cast before astral projecting? If so, shouldn't a spiritual being be able to do the same thing? If not, then I'll just stick him on the couch and hope he doesn't eat all my food. He sounds like a dude who would summon some spirits just to hang out and play poker with anyways.

How do these spells sound? I'd of course take out the Detection specialization, because with my Adept powers I have a lot of stuff covered.

Punch, Heal, Increase [Attribute] (INT), Improved Invisibility, Gecko Crawl, Mob Mind, and Sterilize.

Trid Phantasm should be here I think.

Good suggestion. I'll swap it with Heal. Probably not the best idea, but fits better. I'm also really thinking Magic Fingers. It would definitely be something this guy would know how to do. Just not sure what I would give up. Probably Mob Mind as he seems more of a physical effects person.

I also think he should have a specialization in Aura Assensing, but not sure where I should pull the 2 points from.

[Top Dog]

Spirits of Man need not be bound, no. It's an optional power you give them (innate spellcasting). You do need to have the actual spell yourself, btw. So summoning works, but then the spirit has a -2 sustaining penalty so it'd be bad for anything else.
Also Zelda's point: it needs to manifest to cast. Whether or not it needs to stay on the material plane for the full duration is up for debate. Even if so, you can just stick it in your van/leave it at home. It might bring up some problems, but it's not incurcumventable.

It does say, "Innate Spell (any one spell known by the summoner; Force is limited by the spirit's Magic)" though. Unless that has been changed with errata. Either way I'll want it for when I can get the focus without having to spend an extra 5 karma to learn it.

Yes. Wait, I said you do needed the spell yourself, didn't I?

Can a Mage sustain a spell cast before astral projecting? If so, shouldn't a spiritual being be able to do the same thing? If not, then I'll just stick him on the couch and hope he doesn't eat all my food. He sounds like a dude who would summon some spirits just to hang out and play poker with anyways.

My Air Spirit eats all my cupcakes . Costs me 250 nuyen a month in ingredients. But gets me a service every month so yay. (This is obviously a houserule by our GM. Spirits usually don't eat).

Personal spirit relations is a good thing to think about. If you can summon Spirits of Poker, cool.

[Danny Montanny]

Yes. Wait, I said you do needed the spell yourself, didn't I?

You did. I just read it differently. Stupid brain. Thanks for all the help!
This is my 1st truly fleshed out character, most are just a bunch of stats to try to do something cool, but this guy feels a little more realistic (if a guy who can cast magic and do all the other stuff he can is realistic, that is).