[runarm]

Since R&G came out and the martial arts rules there replaced the specialization rules for the Unarmed Combat skill in the core book, how do you handle characters with a spec in cyber implant weapons? There is no martial art in R&G that specifically uses them.
My initial idea was to simply allow certain weapons (shock hand, hand razors) to be used with most of the Martial arts styles, and the bigger ones (hand blades, spurs) to be used only with those that use bladed weapons. Does that sound reasonable? Is there a better way?

I've also been wondering - is there a reason why one would use Unarmed Combat rather than Blades for things like spurs? Fighting with big-ass blades sticking out of your hand isn't exactly what I would call unarmed. Plus in 4th, you could have a spec for Blades called Cyber Implant Blades or just Cyberblades - there are numerous NPCs in various adventures with this spec. Is there a reason why that couldn't be used in 5th as well?

R.

[8-bit]

Personally, I allow both specializations from the Core Rule Book and Run & Gun. Granted, that's not legal for Missions, but it doesn't break anything, in my experience.

Now, if you were to use only the ones from Run & Gun, I would still allow the one for Cyber Implant Weapons, simply because fighting with those weapons is different than using Martial Arts.

As for why you would use Unarmed Combat, if you are holding a blade, you have your hand closed and a different stance, as well as using different muscles. If you have a blade implanted in you, you aren't holding anything and you are striking as if you were just using your hands. It's basically like boxing (not the Martial Art) or just punching, but instead of hitting with your fist, you have blades sticking out. Considering that the specialization was available in 4th, I wouldn't rule it out, but I think it fits under Unarmed Combat better.

[Medicineman]

Since R&G came out and the martial arts rules there replaced the specialization rules for the Unarmed Combat skill in the core book

are You sure that they replaced the Rules in BBB
ImO the Specialisation from the Basic Book is something different than the Martial Arts in R & G
(same as in 4A Ed people often confused the Martial Arts Specialisation from the Martial Arts Style with Maneuvers



With a Martial Dance
Medicineman

[runarm]

They do in Missions at least.

[ProfGast]

Since R&G came out and the martial arts rules there replaced the specialization rules for the Unarmed Combat skill in the core book, how do you handle characters with a spec in cyber implant weapons? There is no martial art in R&G that specifically uses them.

I'm fairly certain Sangre y Acero, the martial arts focused on Aztlaner pitfighting focuses on cyberweapons...

[All4BigGuns]

They do in Missions at least.

Provide a quote that specifically states that the Cyber-Implants specialization of Unarmed Combat in the core book can't be used in Missions any longer.

[8-bit]

They do in Missions at least.

Provide a quote that specifically states that the Cyber-Implants specialization of Unarmed Combat in the core book can't be used in Missions any longer.

Specializations may not be chosen for Unarmed Combat. The Martial Arts rules from Run & Gun (pp. 128-142) should be used instead. If you purchased a specialization for Unarmed Combat under the original FAQ rules you get refunded 7 Karma that can be spent however you like.

Emphasis is mine.

Here is the link to it.

[All4BigGuns]

They do in Missions at least.

Provide a quote that specifically states that the Cyber-Implants specialization of Unarmed Combat in the core book can't be used in Missions any longer.

Specializations may not be chosen for Unarmed Combat. The Martial Arts rules from Run & Gun (pp. 128-142) should be used instead. If you purchased a specialization for Unarmed Combat under the original FAQ rules you get refunded 7 Karma that can be spent however you like.

Emphasis is mine.

Here is the link to it.

Well, all right then. I'll never be touching official Missions then. Completely ridiculous to go that far when merely replacing the Martial Arts specialization specifically would have been ample.

[8-bit]

I agree, it's a little extreme. I don't really understand half the restrictions on Missions anyway.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Except the Martial Arts rules from Run & Gun contains specialization options.

I personally read that line as "you may no longer take Unarmed Combat (Striking/Blocking/Martial Arts) as a specialization". Using the rules from Run & Gun should still allow for Unarmed Combat (Wildcat) as far as I'm concerned.

[UnLimiTeD]

That's what it says in Run&Gun, at least.

Martial arts styles may
also be selected as specializations for the normal cost
of 7 Karma—selecting that specialization provides a +2
bonus when using that technique.

[Kincaid]

Honestly, having cyber-implant weapons and striking as specializations just gives players "must-haves," which I never find terribly interesting from a design standpoint.  The generic martial arts specialization is an argument waiting to happen at a table of gamers.  As a group, we probably know more/have stronger opinions about martial arts than the lay person.  For example, I take the generic specialization Martial Arts and define it as Tae Kwon Do.  Do I get the +2 dice when I punch?  I get the sense that rhetorical question could spawn a 3-page thread in these forums.

[UnLimiTeD]

You know that requires a diversified examination on the practice of punching.
Do you get a bonus if you punch in tradition with the martial art?
Sure, why not. You get the bonus if you specialize your automatics and shoot an SMG. Any SMG.
But what if you're holding a Gun in your Offhand?
Using Brass Knuckles? A single Cyberarm with amped up strength?
What about attacks from movement, while prone, or otherwise impaired?
In the end, it's about getting those extra dice that you get for everything else, as well. Most specializations don't really have difficult dependencies.

[Kincaid]

Ah, but there's the rub.  (And I'm doing this for illustrative purposes, so please don't turn this thread into martial art X is better than martial art Y).

You'd certainly get the +2 dice to punching if you took boxing.

You'd certainly get the +2 dice to kicking if you took TKD--its kicks are probably the most iconic strikes it has.

You would not get +2 dice to kicks if you took boxing.

From a balance perspective, it becomes hard to justify giving +2 dice to TKD for kicks AND punches (and presumably blocks too, since they get taught).  Eventually, someone in your BJJ class is going to teach you to throw some sort of punch, even if it's just to close distance, but would someone say it "specializes" in punching?

The problem is that people will disagree with what is taught (which, for many martial arts, is a pretty varied set of skills) and what constitutes specialization.  It gets even murkier when the person making the claim has devoted time and money to learning that art.  And it gets murkier yet when the borderline jerk at the table suggests that TKD isn't really a martial art, it's more of a sport and Kung Fu isn't a thing.

When interpretations of a martial art can range from "anything I'm taught even once" to "what wins UFC bouts," it's not an easy debate to referee as a GM and it can create some unbalanced scenarios.  If TKD gets a bonus to everything, why take anything else?

A short list of things to never discuss with strangers at a gaming table:
Martial arts
Katanas ("Damascus steel" falls into this category as well)
"Real" ninjas
Does Glock make a good pistol? (this is probably Shadowrun player-specific)
Is the d20 version of [game X] good or bad?

Any open-ended rule related to any of these topics is probably a bad idea.

[8-bit]

Snipped for space.

And that's why we rarely take specializations for Martial Arts at our table. Especially since half of our table actually does Martial Arts. We actually prefer stuff like "Striking", "Blocking", and "Subduing"; mostly because they are easy to define and have their own specific niches. It's not like going Blades (+2 Swords) and only using a Katana ever isn't, for all intents and purposes, a universal +2 bonus. Ditto with a Pistols (+2 Semi-Automatics).