[Medicineman]

Well, if you want a face, Decker, Mage or TM, you can use life modules. 

Life Modules,....
 I want to explore this system once the German Book is out (and after Metropole is out, because I have an old SR3 Concept of a Char thats from Metrropole )
just recently I read (I don't know if it was here or in the Dumpschock Forum) that some User complains that the Lifepath creates chars that are easily worth a Thousand Karma or more.....

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Twilight]

CGL would be much better off dumping karma and just giving out BP for character advancement to get rid of min-maxing and have better balance between the priorities.

 you can also optimise or Min/Max with BP !! (that for sure)
the only way to "get rid of that" is by using the Karma Gen Rules as they're the same one as in later developement and therefore the only Method which is balanced with ingame advancing  !!
 But with only 800 Karma points, when other methods create Chars of 1000 ,1050 or even 1150 Karma , no Player (at least no one I know of or think of) wants to create an inferior Char.

Yep.  BP certainly has the same min/max problem priority does when compared to karma.  The only fixes are either to get rid of all char gen methods except karma or to dump karma (I was suggesting replacing karma in total with BP - not just for char gen).  Since CGL seems to like priority and BP more than karma gen, it would seem like using BP for char advancement would be the logical option.

I agree that the karma gen in RF is snafu.  800 is much closer to the absolute minimum karma you get from priorities than the max (or even average) and sum-to-10 makes it even worse.  Then there's the limit of 200 karma (400k) resources when the priority system has 450k and nothing else has limits in karma gen.  Then there's the wording of karma gen which, taken literally, says that you pay char advancement rates for everything (eg double listed cost for qualities) which pretty clearly isn't the intent.

[jim1701]

CGL would be much better off dumping karma and just giving out BP for character advancement to get rid of min-maxing and have better balance between the priorities.

 you can also optimise or Min/Max with BP !! (that for sure)
the only way to "get rid of that" is by using the Karma Gen Rules as they're the same one as in later developement and therefore the only Method which is balanced with ingame advancing  !!
 But with only 800 Karma points, when other methods create Chars of 1000 ,1050 or even 1150 Karma , no Player (at least no one I know of or think of) wants to create an inferior Char.

HokaHey
Medicineman

I do prefer it in some cases.  There are builds I've done that aren't quite as good as similar ones done in the priority system in some ways but are better in the ways I wanted them to be.  The priority system is so clunky it drives me crazy most of the time.  Pretty much every character I build using the priority system I end up with a character that just isn't exactly what I wanted.  But I can't take a little from resources to nor can I move a couple points of attributes to edge.  So I end up with a character that is similar to but completely unlike the character I wanted. 

That said the ones that suffer most under the karma system are Awakened characters.  I have yet to make an awakened character I like using karma.

OTOH I would not complain if they raised the karma limit by 100 - 200.   

[All4BigGuns]

CGL would be much better off dumping karma and just giving out BP for character advancement to get rid of min-maxing and have better balance between the priorities.

 you can also optimise or Min/Max with BP !! (that for sure)
the only way to "get rid of that" is by using the Karma Gen Rules as they're the same one as in later developement and therefore the only Method which is balanced with ingame advancing  !!
 But with only 800 Karma points, when other methods create Chars of 1000 ,1050 or even 1150 Karma , no Player (at least no one I know of or think of) wants to create an inferior Char.

HokaHey
Medicineman

I do prefer it in some cases.  There are builds I've done that aren't quite as good as similar ones done in the priority system in some ways but are better in the ways I wanted them to be.  The priority system is so clunky it drives me crazy most of the time.  Pretty much every character I build using the priority system I end up with a character that just isn't exactly what I wanted.  But I can't take a little from resources to nor can I move a couple points of attributes to edge.  So I end up with a character that is similar to but completely unlike the character I wanted. 

That said the ones that suffer most under the karma system are Awakened characters.  I have yet to make an awakened character I like using karma.

OTOH I would not complain if they raised the karma limit by 100 - 200.   

The Karma Generation, as it stands, only really needs the amount of karma raised to the 1,000 mark and for the free pools of both Contact points and Knowledge points reinstated.

[Kincaid]

CGL would be much better off dumping karma and just giving out BP for character advancement to get rid of min-maxing and have better balance between the priorities.

 you can also optimise or Min/Max with BP !! (that for sure)
the only way to "get rid of that" is by using the Karma Gen Rules as they're the same one as in later developement and therefore the only Method which is balanced with ingame advancing  !!
 But with only 800 Karma points, when other methods create Chars of 1000 ,1050 or even 1150 Karma , no Player (at least no one I know of or think of) wants to create an inferior Char.

HokaHey
Medicineman

I do prefer it in some cases.  There are builds I've done that aren't quite as good as similar ones done in the priority system in some ways but are better in the ways I wanted them to be.  The priority system is so clunky it drives me crazy most of the time.  Pretty much every character I build using the priority system I end up with a character that just isn't exactly what I wanted.  But I can't take a little from resources to nor can I move a couple points of attributes to edge.  So I end up with a character that is similar to but completely unlike the character I wanted. 

That said the ones that suffer most under the karma system are Awakened characters.  I have yet to make an awakened character I like using karma.

OTOH I would not complain if they raised the karma limit by 100 - 200.   

The Karma Generation, as it stands, only really needs the amount of karma raised to the 1,000 mark and for the free pools of both Contact points and Knowledge points reinstated.

Those pools were never removed.

[All4BigGuns]

CGL would be much better off dumping karma and just giving out BP for character advancement to get rid of min-maxing and have better balance between the priorities.

 you can also optimise or Min/Max with BP !! (that for sure)
the only way to "get rid of that" is by using the Karma Gen Rules as they're the same one as in later developement and therefore the only Method which is balanced with ingame advancing  !!
 But with only 800 Karma points, when other methods create Chars of 1000 ,1050 or even 1150 Karma , no Player (at least no one I know of or think of) wants to create an inferior Char.

HokaHey
Medicineman

I do prefer it in some cases.  There are builds I've done that aren't quite as good as similar ones done in the priority system in some ways but are better in the ways I wanted them to be.  The priority system is so clunky it drives me crazy most of the time.  Pretty much every character I build using the priority system I end up with a character that just isn't exactly what I wanted.  But I can't take a little from resources to nor can I move a couple points of attributes to edge.  So I end up with a character that is similar to but completely unlike the character I wanted. 

That said the ones that suffer most under the karma system are Awakened characters.  I have yet to make an awakened character I like using karma.

OTOH I would not complain if they raised the karma limit by 100 - 200.   

The Karma Generation, as it stands, only really needs the amount of karma raised to the 1,000 mark and for the free pools of both Contact points and Knowledge points reinstated.

Those pools were never removed.

At least with the Knowledge pool, it doesn't say you get it, so, unfortunately, as much as it's needed, you don't.

[Kincaid]

I promise you, you do.  This was confirmed in a remote part of the Matrix guarded by NDA IC, so I can't supply a screenshot, but yes, lots of free Knowledge skills for all.

[jim1701]

I did post a question in the RF errata forum a while back regarding free contact points and free knowledge points.  I'm confident you do get them but it would be nice if they fixed the text to be clear on that at some point. 

[UnLimiTeD]

As an Example, this Char Concept (Excel).
What could I do to do it with Priority?
The money is midway between E and D, as a Surge II Myad with 5 PPs and a focus on a wide array of skills, I can't seem to quite get anywhere close with Priority.
As such, I'm pretty fine with Karma Gen.
Free Knowledge Points would be nice, though.

[Lucean]

I promise you, you do.  This was confirmed in a remote part of the Matrix guarded by NDA IC, so I can't supply a screenshot, but yes, lots of free Knowledge skills for all.

(INT+LOG)*2 is not much and in a karmasystem it would be more appropriate to also use the same system for language/knowledge skills.

[Squirrel]

Did I miss something or is "Arcology Living" strictly inferior to the very next life module "Corp drone"? Fluff aside why do I pay 40 karma for a module that gives me a 15 karma negative quality when I can get a module with exactly the same modifications but without the quality?

[Darzil]

I don't think it is actually exactly a 15 point negative quality in life modules. The reason being that you can move through and take other modules with that as a negative quality and it'll not change or increase, so it can't be balanced as a 15 point negative in each module. So if you have 3 modules with Corporate Limited SIN, you still only have it as one negative quality, and you don't have to pick another as you would for other duplicates.

I do think the life modules need a balance pass, though.

[UnLimiTeD]

If you received the same quality twice in the process
and it cannot advance to a higher tier, select another
quality of the same Karma cost

As such, yes, I think they are balanced with that in mind, albeit badly.
Corp Drone is one of the best picks you can get, it provides a massive array of skills, and is better than both arcology and white collar.

[Darzil]

If you received the same quality twice in the process
and it cannot advance to a higher tier, select another
quality of the same Karma cost

As such, yes, I think they are balanced with that in mind, albeit badly.
Corp Drone is one of the best picks you can get, it provides a massive array of skills, and is better than both arcology and white collar.

The sentence before that is "Also note the highest-value SIN you received through the system; that SIN would supplant any other SINs received in the process."

In the sample generation each time they get a new SIN that is higher value it replaces the lower valued one, without getting a replacement quality. Both imply that the SIN qualities are treated differently to the others.