[8-bit]

You can shoot your gun multiple times with a multiple attacks free action...

Yes

However, note that the rules are clear that if you shoot 3 shots with a single weapon set on semi-automatic firing mode on one target you still only attack him once, target get a negative dice pool modifier of 2 dice, you don't split pool and you don't spend a free action on multiple attacks.

If you shoot 2 3-bullet bursts with a single weapon set on burst fire firing mode on one target you still only attack him once, target get a negative dice pool modifier of 5 dice, you don't split pool and you don't spend a free action on multiple attacks.

I've seen the multitude of threads where this is covered, and I understand that. Firebug was stating that it shouldn't be possible to cast multiple Combat spells in one Action Pass (essentially multiple Attack Actions), and I pointed out that in every case with the Multiple Attacks free action, you can attack multiple times while still using only one Attack Action; you simply split the dice pool instead of rolling with full dice. I was merely stating that, like firearms, grenades, etc, several Combat spells can be cast during the same Action using the Multiple Attacks free action.

[Xenon]

And that's why i started with "Yes".

...but to avoid further confusion by other readers I just wanted to point out that with a "gun" (in singular) you cannot attack the "same target" more than once (but depending on your reading it might or might not be possible to do with two guns).

[8-bit]

Ah, all right. I understand now. Sometimes it's hard to pick out meaning in a text based format, sadly. Makes sense to clarify it for other readers.

[Michael Chandra]

That checks out, and indeed doesn't say you can't...  But I think the idea is that you are to use it to cast multiple buff spells, not to do something like "I'll cast 6 Ball Lightning spells and just let the scatter as much as I like".  I believe somewhere there's a general overarching rule of being able to make only one attack a pass.  Hence why you can't just Simple Action shoot twice.

1 attack action, so multicasting offensive spells is allowed. That said, the gap in the rules with positive modifiers for offensive spells is one several people object to and want to close. And if it's closed, the scatter is really dangerous.


There's 3 important reasons why Force matters on Sustained Spells when only hits are used for the benefit by the way, which the topic starter should keep in mind:

1: Enemy mages. If they spot your spell from the Astral, then Assense it as a Force 1, they know they can easily dispel it. 
2: Wards. The Force is used to decide whether your spell survives when you crash into a ward.
3: Background Count. A Force 1 spell is dead the second you enter ANY background count. A Force 4 will survive everything that ain't a magical disaster.

[Xenon]

Indeed important factors to keep in mind...

Note that according to PERCEIVING MAGIC on SR5 p. 280-281 it will be rather easy to spot a subtle spell (obvious spells doesn't require a test to notice) cast with a force close to the magicians spellcasting potential, while a subtle spell with a force 1 (but possible pushed the limit with edge or reagents) might be very hard to spot

This is without using astral perception / projection.
In Astral all spell auras are obvious and does not even require a test for an astral observer to spot
Astral observers only need to take a test if they are watching the aura in detail to find out more about it
- aka Assensing.

(and you need 3 hits on a simple unopposed Assensing test to know if the spell aura is of lower force than your own magic and 4 hits to learn the exact force of the spell aura)

[firebug]

3: Background Count. A Force 1 spell is dead the second you enter ANY background count. A Force 4 will survive everything that ain't a magical disaster.

Really?  I couldn't find anything like that in Street Grimoire.  Though to be honest, it doesn't even actually state "a penalty to dice pools" for background count there either unless it's for some reason not in the Background Count chapter.  If you could quote it or point me to it I'd really appreciate that.  If that's how it is, then I've got a bit of an issue like with noise in that background count is incredibly common and caused by the most basic of things.  Something like a rock concert creates like 4 points.  Heck, it says an isolated love affair can create 1 - 3 points.  The barrens must have at least 2 points at all times just from being 1) a terribly violent place and 2) full of miserable people.

And seeing as any violent death creates at least 1 background count, that's quite a good reason to not go F1 then.

EDIT:  Oh I found it!  Now I feel like an idiot.

Man that's hardcore.  In any background count, that focus wouldn't even function.  So yeah, never mind, it's prettymuch impossible to pull off.

[Michael Chandra]

Such a background count is only within the immediate vicinity, but it's indeed easily overkill.

CCZ is standard 2, worse under really bad circumstances. It's 3 at a place where everyone is slowly dying horrible deaths with Shedim messing around. So even most of the Barrens would be a 1 at most, and significant parts would be 0 unless you catch them at a bad time. If it ain't Z, it ain't 2+. A GM constantly throwing his players against a background count while not being inside the CCZ all the time is doing it wrong. Even the Narrows are 0~3, not 2~3.

[Sendaz]

  Heck, it says an isolated love affair can create 1 - 3 points. 

  So doing that run inside a Tokyo Love Hotel may be trickier than originally planned.

[firebug]

That does seem a bit more reasonable.  Though the game does once again not realize the implications.  MIT&T always being 4 is especially funny.  Even assuming it's hermetic-aligned, that still means -4 to the force of every focus on the grounds.  I mean, sheesh.  The penalty to the force of active foci is pretty rough.  That screws up sustaining foci quite a bit and can mean a mage essentially takes a "double dip" of the penalty.  In the CZ, if you normally have a F3 Combat Spellcasting Focus, then your dice pool gets lowered by 4...

Though realizing that it's only the "immediate vicinity" does at least mean that unless the mage is standing over the corpses of his enemies, he won't suddenly have a background count in the middle of combat.

[Michael Chandra]

Foci are tradition-aligned aren't they? So I doubt they get hit there.

Anyway, to show I practice what I preach: I did not employ background count when my runners were looking for escaped critters in Puyallup, except for a short count of 1 when a scared crowd ran past them away from the Martichores.

[firebug]

I haven't read anything that says they are, but it would make sense if they were.  I'm still surprised to find out that background count has the potential to be more vicious than Noise.

[Tarislar]

Let's say for example I want to cast 2 force 6 ball lightnings as a complex action, walk me through what happens next.

You split your dice pool in 1/2 & then pray you still get 3 successes on the smaller pools & don't drift those spells right back on top of you 

There is debate about AE's since you can't attack the same target twice.
I'd say they have to be centered around a 2nd person but if they overlap with each other its allowed.
Basically you couldn't do it if there was only 1 enemy but as long as there are 2+ it should be allowed.

[Tarislar]

Consider buying a F1 Sustaining Health Focus (or buying Focused Concentration 1) and using it to sustain Force 1 Increase Reflexes cast with Edge.  You could end up with, what, eight hits on average?  That's 8+4d6 extra initiative, which means you'll have a comparable amount to what most optimized Adepts have.  And normally you'd need to resist 8DV of drain (which would be physical) to achieve that.  Instead you'll just resist 2DV of physical.

That might be one of the best edge uses I've ever heard of.  Bravo.

[Shrazkil]

Let's say for example I want to cast 2 force 6 ball lightnings as a complex action, walk me through what happens next.

You split your dice pool in 1/2 & then pray you still get 3 successes on the smaller pools & don't drift those spells right back on top of you 

There is debate about AE's since you can't attack the same target twice.
I'd say they have to be centered around a 2nd person but if they overlap with each other its allowed.
Basically you couldn't do it if there was only 1 enemy but as long as there are 2+ it should be allowed.

Ok and threshhold 3 is the standard for these? I Was told specializations and bonus's from mentor spirit will affect both sides of the dicepool split, so if i am splitting 14 dice, and have +4 combat from mentor, specialization, i could do 11 dice each, and what about spell foci? Does that affect the whole pool or seperate, because if i cast 2 spells of different schools i could use each foci?

[Tarislar]

Ok and threshhold 3 is the standard for these? I Was told specializations and bonus's from mentor spirit will affect both sides of the dicepool split, so if i am splitting 14 dice, and have +4 combat from mentor, specialization, i could do 11 dice each, and what about spell foci? Does that affect the whole pool or seperate, because if i cast 2 spells of different schools i could use each foci?

Yes 3 is the threshold.
At the moment yes, modifiers are After the split.

However normal split pools applies them Before the split.
I wouldn't be surprised if it gets a retcon to make it before the split to match other combat actions.
At the very least it should be that modifiers can only be applied 1x, so you wouldn't get the Power Focus or the Specialization to both Casts.
That or they should move all modifiers to Post Split so its just the Skill/Attribute dice that get split.
After all, if Mentor can be applied twice then surely smartgunlink should be applied to both shots.
I'm torn on how Power focus should work, its the same for both spells so that to me should be pre-split.

Really though, w/o much chance to stage up the damage your talking 2 separate chances to resist and something like an Armored Jacket w/ Non-Con-4 is going to remove most of that DV-6 before body dice even come into play.  You'll probably end up with 1-2 net damage.  But I guess it all depends on who the targets are.