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First Attempt at an Alchemist

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« on: <10-12-14/1406:24> »
I had this idea of an alchemist who based all their alchemy on poems and quotes. For example, a command trigger Lightning bolt would be triggered by the phrase "And like a thunderbolt he falls" from the poem "The Eagle" by Lord Alfred Tennyson. Might be a little silly sounding, but I thought it might be cool. Plus, it gives me an excuse to look up poems and quotes to use.

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-- Priorities --
Metatype D (Human)
Attributes A
Magic B (Magician - 4 Magic, 7 Spells)
Skills C
Resources E

-- Karma Expenditure --
50 Total
-22 in Qualities
-10 for 20,000 nuyen
-2 for Arcana 1
-16 for Contacts

0 Left

-- Attributes --
Body 3
Agility 4
Reaction 5
Strength 1
Willpower 5
Logic 6
Intuition 5
Charisma 3
Edge 3
Magic 6
Essence 6

Initiative - 10 + 1d6
Astral Initiative - 10 + 2d6
Physical Condition Monitor - 10
Stun Condition Monitor - 11
Physical Limit - 4
Mental Limit - 8
Social Limit - 6
Astral Limit - 8

-- Qualities --
Astral Chameleon (-10 Karma)
Mentor Spirit - Dragonslayer (-5 Karma)
Spirit Affinity - Fire (-7 Karma)
Corporate Born SIN - Wuxing (+25 Karma)

-- Skills --
Stealth 2
Alchemy 6 (+2 Command Trigger) - dice pool of 12 (14)
Arcana 1 - dice pool of 7
Assensing 6 (+2 Aura Reading) - dice pool of 11 (13)
Con 5 (+2 Fast Talk) [+2 Mentor Spirit] - dice pool of 10 (12)
Perception 1 (+2 Visual) - dice pool of 6 (8)
Pistols 6 (+2 Semi-Automatics) - dice pool of 10 (12)
Summoning 6 (+2 Spirits of Fire) - dice pool of 12 (14)

-- Knowledge/Language Skills --
TBD - 22 points | Probably a lot of cultural and poetry stuff

-- Gear --
Armor Jacket w/ Nonconductivity 6 - 2,500 nuyen
Colt Government 2066 w/ Silencer and 2 Spare Clips - 935 nuyen
Ammunition: 200 Gel Rounds (Heavy Pistols), 200 Regular Ammo (Heavy Pistols) - 900 nuyen
Rating 6 Medkit - 1,500 nuyen
Renraku Sensei Commlink - 1,000 nuyen
2 Meta Link Commlinks - 200 nuyen
Micro-transceiver - 100 nuyen
50 drams of Reagents - 1,000 nuyen
Rating 6 Respirator - 300 nuyen
Survival Kit - 200 nuyen
Capacity 3 Glasses w/ Flare Compensation, Image Link, Vision Magnification - 825 nuyen
2 Gold, 4 Silver Credsticks - 280 nuyen
Rating 4 Fake SIN w/ Rating 4 Fake License (Colt Government 2066), Rating 4 Fake License (Gel Rounds), Rating 4 Fake License (Regular Ammo), Rating 4 Fake License (Registered Magician) - 13,200 nuyen
1 Month of Low Lifestyle w/ Specialized Work Area - 3,000 nuyen

Remaining Money - 60 + (3d6 x 60) nuyen

-- Magic --
Alchemical Preparations
Fireball
Knockout
Lightning Bolt
Heal
Improved Invisibility
Sound Barrier
Physical Barrier


-- Contacts --
TBD - 25 points to spend

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So, any thoughts? I'm still kind of new to the whole alchemy thing, so any advice would be appreciated.

firebug

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« Reply #1 on: <10-12-14/1446:58> »
A Force 4 Alchemy Focus is something you can start the game with, and I very highly recommend it.  It's 12 Karma and 20,000¥, and that's a +4 to all Alchemy tests.  Extremely useful, and you need all the boosts you can get with Alchemy.

Alchemy is least useful in combat--  You're unlikely to do much more with preparations.

A F6 spell will likely be potency 4 at most, if you're rolling 18 dice in Alchemy, making it less effective than just casting the spell with 6 MAG and 6 Sorcery.  If this F6 spell is a single target combat spell (like Lightning Bolt), then a sorcerer is unlikely to take any damage from the drain anyways, so the "benefit" of preparing it ahead of time is lost as well.  Also, due to handling drain ahead of time and dealing with potency time limits, you can only bring a small number with you.  You might be able to manage one or two high Force combat preparations, but that's still no better than a sorcerer--  Who can pick and choose what to use as they do it.

If you want to try, you'll really want Increase Reflexes.  If you're a combatant, you need initiative after all.

I'd wanna add though...  You could just do the same kind of thing, perhaps, with sorcery and using poetry for your Centering metamagic.  Alchemy preps don't need words to activate, so if the idea is a magician who's poetic and dramatic, it'd probably work just as well.
« Last Edit: <10-12-14/1448:39> by firebug »
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

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« Reply #2 on: <10-12-14/1507:22> »
A Force 4 Alchemy Focus is something you can start the game with, and I very highly recommend it.  It's 12 Karma and 20,000¥, and that's a +4 to all Alchemy tests.  Extremely useful, and you need all the boosts you can get with Alchemy.

Alchemy is least useful in combat--  You're unlikely to do much more with preparations.

A F6 spell will likely be potency 4 at most, if you're rolling 18 dice in Alchemy, making it less effective than just casting the spell with 6 MAG and 6 Sorcery.  If this F6 spell is a single target combat spell (like Lightning Bolt), then a sorcerer is unlikely to take any damage from the drain anyways, so the "benefit" of preparing it ahead of time is lost as well.  Also, due to handling drain ahead of time and dealing with potency time limits, you can only bring a small number with you.  You might be able to manage one or two high Force combat preparations, but that's still no better than a sorcerer--  Who can pick and choose what to use as they do it.

If you want to try, you'll really want Increase Reflexes.  If you're a combatant, you need initiative after all.

I'd wanna add though...  You could just do the same kind of thing, perhaps, with sorcery and using poetry for your Centering metamagic.  Alchemy preps don't need words to activate, so if the idea is a magician who's poetic and dramatic, it'd probably work just as well.

Yeah, I'm considering making another build with an Alchemy Focus. I can't really fit it in with Priority E Resources though.

I can see prepping some spells before a run as utility. Definitely not the best combat person, that's what a normal spellcaster is for.

Where are you seeing 4 Potency at most? I mean, 6 dice is likely to get 2 hits, but that's fairly likely to get fewer hits. Even with my not so amazing 14 dice, I am fairly likely to get 5+ hits. I can always reroll the super important high force spell with Edge if I need to. The Potency time limits are not that bad, as 8 hours before a run is not terrible. It is a thing to deal with, I grant you that. Drain is also sort of annoying, but 4 drain is not impossible to deal with when I have 11 dice to resist. Also, if it's still stun damage, I might be able to nap it off before a run. It is still a pretty annoying thing to deal with.

I do have a few ideas of creating an Alchemist with A for magic, so I get a few more spells in there. For now, what do you suggest me dropping for Increase Reflexes? Sound barrier perhaps? I could create a bunch of Improved Invisibility and Increase Reflexes preparations before hand to leave around for people to buff themselves. Like, "If you get in trouble, pick up this credstick and say 'Cloak me from my enemies, shield me from their sight'. You will become Invisible for a time."* More of a utility thing than combat related. Although I could always hand the face a credstick with a Command Trigger Knockout spell for them to activate when they "bribe" the guard.

I do like that idea you have of a Sorceror with Poetry for Centering. It's not possible at creation, but it does sound pretty cool.

Thanks for the input!

*(I just made that up, I don't think that's actual poetry. As you can tell, lots of research is needed for this character)

Marcus

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« Reply #3 on: <10-12-14/2358:24> »
I'd advice swapping Pistols to Bow, crossbow or thrown.
The current RAW interpretation of SG says you can't do magic bullet (An argument I personally disagree with, but that's not here nor there).
However it does clearly say Arrows and thrown weapon work. So Magic Hand Grenades, Enchanted tech arrows etc etc, are all open season, at least until someone manages to come up some kind logical policy on this subject.
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firebug

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« Reply #4 on: <10-13-14/0042:51> »
Where are you seeing 4 Potency at most? I mean, 6 dice is likely to get 2 hits, but that's fairly likely to get fewer hits. Even with my not so amazing 14 dice, I am fairly likely to get 5+ hits. I can always reroll the super important high force spell with Edge if I need to. The Potency time limits are not that bad, as 8 hours before a run is not terrible. It is a thing to deal with, I grant you that. Drain is also sort of annoying, but 4 drain is not impossible to deal with when I have 11 dice to resist. Also, if it's still stun damage, I might be able to nap it off before a run. It is still a pretty annoying thing to deal with.
Two hits is the average of six dice--  It's "fairly likely" to be higher or lower, but that's the most common outcome.  You can use Edge, but then you're using Edge for one mediocre spell...  My point is that you'll likely hamper yourself if you try to be a combat alchemist as your focus.

Here's the thing about the potency time limits.  The hours before and between you'll need to use for resting.  Four Drain from a F6 Command Lightning Bolt isn't bad, but using the Fireball preparation will be tougher.  At F6, you'll probably end up with 3-4 Stun from drain (8 DV, 12 dice on Drain Resist would average 4 hits).  With 8 dice from BOD+WIL, that'll take one or two hours to rest off.  For every 3 drain you actually take, that's an hour of rest needed, and unless you're doing relatively low Force spells, you're likely to take drain.  And lower Force spells (4 or below) thus last a shorter period of time and have much smaller dice pools (a F4 Preparation is likely to have a dice pool of 7 to cast with...)

So assuming you're doing things at least at F5 (where you're likely to get at least 9 dice for the prep to cast with, which is still kinda low) and with your list, most things will cause around 6 Drain, of which you can probably expect 4 resisted.  The potency will probably be 4, so they'll last 8 hours.  Assuming you don't mind taking the wound penalties (and for simplicity, assuming they don't impact your preparations) you could make about...  Eight preparations?

8(number of preps) x 2(average drain) = 16 / 3(stun recovered in one hour) = 5.3(hours needed, approximately).  This leaves you a bit less than 3 hours for travel time and what have you before you start losing preparations.  If say, the job is like 15 minutes away and everybody's already fine to go and you can work up right until the job starts, you could get away with about 11 preparations.

Which is a decent number of spells I suppose, but they'll all be less effective than if a sorcerer used them (with a higher dice pool, and taking 2 less drain per, meaning 0 on average) and completely locked in.

This is what I call "The Alchemy Problem".

The better your preparations are, the less and less of them you can have, and the bar starts much lower than it does for sorcery.  Currently, the "benefit" of alchemy has enough built-in drawbacks that the other drawbacks of alchemy just drown it out.

Quote
I do have a few ideas of creating an Alchemist with A for magic, so I get a few more spells in there. For now, what do you suggest me dropping for Increase Reflexes? Sound barrier perhaps? I could create a bunch of Improved Invisibility and Increase Reflexes preparations before hand to leave around for people to buff themselves. Like, "If you get in trouble, pick up this credstick and say 'Cloak me from my enemies, shield me from their sight'. You will become Invisible for a time."* More of a utility thing than combat related. Although I could always hand the face a credstick with a Command Trigger Knockout spell for them to activate when they "bribe" the guard.

I'd suggest Sound Barrier dropped for Increase Reflexes, but that's just me.

People can't activate your preparations unless they're Contact, in which case they couldn't carry them around beforehand.  If you can't be there to activate them (which requires LOS and a Simple Action, and can't be done from the Astral unless you Manifest) then your best bet would be either hiding contact preparations around the run site, or giving everyone timed preparations to all go off at a certain time (which is always just after an amount of time, but you could say "I am gonna time these all to go off at 5:30").

Alchemy is the Technomancy of magic.  A more difficult way to do the same thing (as Sorcery or decking, respectively) but worse, unless you figure out a very niche role for yourself or a specific trick.
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Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Marcus

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« Reply #5 on: <10-13-14/1004:39> »
Firebug is basically correct. Alchemy as currently laid out is vastly overly complicate spellcasting, this mainly due to the trigger limits. Any of the really useful spells or effects are trigger command limited. The simple fact is if you have to be there to use it, you would be much better of terms of time and resources, to cast the spell right there anyways. I think the designers are still very much thinking through alchemy concept. 

Alchemy will never replace the teams caster. Why? Because Counter spelling is critical, and no potion or magic bullet will handle that job.
Alchemy should make things like magic bullets, healing potions and various spell trigger items, for a very hefty fee.

These effect shouldn't require the alchemist's presence.
 But that's not how it works right now, and it doesn't seem likely to change any time soon.
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« Reply #6 on: <10-13-14/1133:23> »
*Alchemy Problem*
{/quote]

Well, that's a pretty good point. Definitely is making me reconsider Alchemy in general.

Quote
I do have a few ideas of creating an Alchemist with A for magic, so I get a few more spells in there. For now, what do you suggest me dropping for Increase Reflexes? Sound barrier perhaps? I could create a bunch of Improved Invisibility and Increase Reflexes preparations before hand to leave around for people to buff themselves. Like, "If you get in trouble, pick up this credstick and say 'Cloak me from my enemies, shield me from their sight'. You will become Invisible for a time."* More of a utility thing than combat related. Although I could always hand the face a credstick with a Command Trigger Knockout spell for them to activate when they "bribe" the guard.

I'd suggest Sound Barrier dropped for Increase Reflexes, but that's just me.

People can't activate your preparations unless they're Contact, in which case they couldn't carry them around beforehand.  If you can't be there to activate them (which requires LOS and a Simple Action, and can't be done from the Astral unless you Manifest) then your best bet would be either hiding contact preparations around the run site, or giving everyone timed preparations to all go off at a certain time (which is always just after an amount of time, but you could say "I am gonna time these all to go off at 5:30").

Alchemy is the Technomancy of magic.  A more difficult way to do the same thing (as Sorcery or decking, respectively) but worse, unless you figure out a very niche role for yourself or a specific trick.

Sound Barrier does sound ... like the thing to drop.

Really, people can't activate a command trigger? Damn. I mean, I can still hide contact preparations around, or do the timed preparations as you said, but it would have been nice to use the command trigger.

Firebug is basically correct. Alchemy as currently laid out is vastly overly complicate spellcasting, this mainly due to the trigger limits. Any of the really useful spells or effects are trigger command limited. The simple fact is if you have to be there to use it, you would be much better of terms of time and resources, to cast the spell right there anyways. I think the designers are still very much thinking through alchemy concept. 

Alchemy will never replace the teams caster. Why? Because Counter spelling is critical, and no potion or magic bullet will handle that job.
Alchemy should make things like magic bullets, healing potions and various spell trigger items, for a very hefty fee.

These effect shouldn't require the alchemist's presence.
 But that's not how it works right now, and it doesn't seem likely to change any time soon.


I never intended this guy to be a main combatant or to replace a spellcaster, but it would have been nice to provide a bunch of utility. Seems like the drain limitations prevent that though, as I can't prepare a bunch of utility preparations, like Increase Reflexes or Improved Invisibility, to help before a run. Although I still can summon spirits, so I guess it's not terrible, but still not the greatest.