[8-bit]

Damn, that is one fast vehicle. Seems to me as if the spirit's movement power needs more of a GM houseruling then, rather than the high Agility.

[Ryo]

Movement is problematic, but honestly, the heart of the problem is the Speed table. It makes no freakin' sense. If you changed a vehicle's speed back to a flat movement rate, like it was in 4th, the Movement power wouldn't be nearly as ridiculous.

Going by the Speed table (page 202), the following vehicles aren't even legal to take on the highway, because their top speed is below 30 mph. (Speed 3)

Dodge Scoot, Yamaha Growler (on road; it apparently goes 60 mph off road), C-N Jackrabbit, Ford Americar, GMC Bulldog, Ares Roadmaster.

But wait, that's just ground vehicles in the core. Stolen Souls had some too. Let's add those to the list.

Chrysler-Nissan Journey, Espirit Ind. Watcher, GMC Sidewinder,  Honda Artemis.

Stolen Souls even has vehicles lower than Speed 3 though.

Speed 2: Conestoga Trailblazer, S-K LT-21. Top speed of 14 mph.

Speed 1: Trailblazer with trailer, Dodge Ram Industrial (large and narrow). Top speed of 7 mph. An Agility 6 character can WALK faster than this.

Speed 1 is truly the most absurd. Walk rate of 5 meters, Run rate of 10 meters. The average human, Agility 3, is faster than it. Walks at 6, runs at 12.

[Shrazkil]

Incidentally, what bioware are you buying to be at 11 during creation?

Elf with Exceptional Attribute - Agility and Used Muscle Toner 3 (11R Availability). Technically, it's 8 (11).

I never thought about getting "used" , i see.

[8-bit]

Incidentally, what bioware are you buying to be at 11 during creation?

Elf with Exceptional Attribute - Agility and Used Muscle Toner 3 (11R Availability). Technically, it's 8 (11).

I never thought about getting "used" , i see.

Well, normal bioware still is just off the shelf augmentations that interact with everyone, so they can be used. It is an interesting concept. If you don't mind the enormous essence loss, you could get Used Muscle Replacement 3 instead, but it is a whopping 3.75 essence.

@Ryo

Wow, that really does not make sense. Do they even make motorcycles and cars that cannot reach 60 mph today?

[Ryo]

Incidentally, what bioware are you buying to be at 11 during creation?

Elf with Exceptional Attribute - Agility and Used Muscle Toner 3 (11R Availability). Technically, it's 8 (11).

I never thought about getting "used" , i see.

Well, normal bioware still is just off the shelf augmentations that interact with everyone, so they can be used. It is an interesting concept. If you don't mind the enormous essence loss, you could get Used Muscle Replacement 3 instead, but it is a whopping 3.75 essence.

@Ryo

Wow, that really does not make sense. Do they even make motorcycles and cars that cannot reach 60 mph today?

Even a crappy car will go 90 if you floor it. Every modern vehicle would count as Speed 5 by the table on page 202, maybe speed 4.5 or something if it can't actually hit 120. It's worth noting that there's only 1 ground vehicle that's Speed 5, which is the Concordat. Everything else is either faster or slower (mostly slower). Although you do have the Westwind with Speed 7, able to hit 480 mph. You know, more than half the speed of sound.

[ZeConster]

Sure they can do crazy stuff with 12 Agility, but 12 Agility is literally the absolute maximum possible to achieve, ever.

Unless Shapechange remains unnerfed, in which case Agility 20+ is suddenly possible (although not something you can pull off every session).



As for how Movement works on vehicles, a reasonable approach is to assume they mean m/turn speed, not the Speed stat: that way, 7 hits with Acceleration gives +14m/turn (and this can be repeatedly done while sustaining the power), instead of +14 Speed (making the vehicle 16,000 times as fast does't fit the whole "Using Movement on vehicles is tougher" bit). (Also a reasonable approach is to scrap the broken Speed mechanism and revert to 4e Speed stats.)

[Marcus]

*Crited by the Epic wall of text.*
If you have 12 Agility your double what is consider peek natural human so yes your going to stupidly overwhelmingly fast. Like rurouni kenshin fight scene fast.
Regardless of how real or unreal your possible movements speeds gets it remains very little cause for concern for the combat system. The only place movement plays a role in combat on the question of  closing or evading melee, and as such it will always be measured in meters. In short it really isn't that useful for the purposes of SR combat to be able to do the 3 min mile.

Beyond movement and hitting agility doesn't do a lot, so I don't think it a huge cause for concern.

[8-bit]

Speaking of 12 Agility being that fast, I wonder how unsettling it would be to see a person sort of just move across the room at 4x the speed of an average metahuman. I mean, you can tell they aren't running or anything, but they just sort of appear in front of you in less time than you would think possible. Another question for you guys if you don't mind. In terms of roleplaying, how does movement affect it? I mean, it's usually something overlooked, but I can imagine some of the more purist human crowd being a little unsettled by how unearthly graceful and fast this Agility 11/12 Elf is. It's probably a stupid question, but I could see some interesting roleplaying that could be based off of someone who is clearly unnaturally acrobatic and graceful in their movements.

[Shrazkil]

Its important to note, agility is not going to help your physical limit, and certainly not going to help your initiative any either.

 I think a 9 agility elf with improved reflexes 3 is going to out-move the example long term, considering he will likely be getting at least 1 extra action per turn.

[8-bit]

Its important to note, agility is not going to help your physical limit, and certainly not going to help your initiative any either.

 I think a 9 agility elf with improved reflexes 3 is going to out-move the example long term, considering he will likely be getting at least 1 extra action per turn.

You can get 11 Agility with Improved Reflexes 3. You need Beast's Way, Spiritual Way, or Magician's Way, but you can do it. You would have to drop Exceptional Attribute, but that's your choice. However, you are right about the physical limit. It should be noted that B or A for attributes can give you 3 body, 7 (11) Agility, 5 (8) Reaction, and 3 Strength. That's a physical limit of 6, which isn't too bad. It's not the best, but it's pretty good, and if you roll really well, you can always edge something afterwards if you want. Probably the most important thing to note as well is that weapon skills are limited by Accuracy, and you can pretty easily get 7 Accuracy on a lot of guns. Getting 7 hits on a shooting test should hopefully be more than enough in most situations.

Edit: Movement is based off of Combat Turns, no matter the amount of Action Passes. So, if you go your max in 1 round, 3 rounds, or 5 rounds, you would have to make a Sprinting test to achieve more distance, no matter how many rounds you have left.

[Marcus]

Yeah its possible to start this way, though possible and practical are not the same thing. You need elf, you need 14 pt quality, you need magic, and you need to spend 4 pp into improved attribute.  Any character that did this is way over invested in this.   While I agree that movement is as 8-Bit described meaning that agil 12 guy is the fastest thing in town in terms of moving from point a to point b. It doesn't mean he can win a fight. Though the fact that he can probably shoot a fly out of the air with Ares Predator isn't going to hurt his chances. 

[Ryo]

As soon as Run Faster comes out, I'm making a Changling Elf with Exceptional Agility, Metagenetic Agility, Celerity and Satyr Legs.

Then you've got yourself an Elf with 9(13) Agility, and a movement rate of *4/*8. Why yes, I do want to run at 77 mph. Sounds fun.

And once Genetic Optimization and Skimmer disc cyber feet make a comeback....look out.

[8-bit]

As soon as Run Faster comes out, I'm making a Changling Elf with Exceptional Agility, Metagenetic Agility, Celerity and Satyr Legs.

Then you've got yourself an Elf with 9(13) Agility, and a movement rate of *4/*8. Why yes, I do want to run at 77 mph. Sounds fun.

And once Genetic Optimization and Skimmer disc cyber feet make a comeback....look out.

That sounds fun. Might be a little extreme, but fun.

[Medicineman]

That sounds fun. Might be a little extreme, but fun.

IT IS 
for 4A I've got a Fomori with a fake  Licence lvl 5 ....
to Run on the Highways as he's making 70meters per Round (Without Sprinting, "mere" Running Speed IIRC)
Ideally He starts the Combat Round >60 Meters away from the Enemy (Well out of Range for any Pistol) has (IIRC) 3 IniPasses, uses the first two one (with full Dodge) to approach the Enemy, makes a Run-by-Melee-Attack
and is >10 Meters away at the End of the Round (beyond Point Blank)
My Surged (Albino) Wakyambi (Pistolero Adept )reaches even 75 M/Rd with his skates ....Muhahahahaa

with a really fast Dance
Medicineman

[ZeConster]

As soon as Run Faster comes out, I'm making a Changling Elf with Exceptional Agility, Metagenetic Agility, Celerity and Satyr Legs.

Then you've got yourself an Elf with 9(13) Agility, and a movement rate of *4/*8. Why yes, I do want to run at 77 mph. Sounds fun.

And once Genetic Optimization and Skimmer disc cyber feet make a comeback....look out.

Or you could get an F6 bound spirit, Magic 6, Sorcery 6, a specialization, a Force 4 spellcasting focus, and 5 Edge, and Push the Limit for an average of ~11.5 hits on Shapechange (and a 1 in 8 chance of 16+), turning into a puma with Agility 16-17 (or even 21, if you're lucky). As a bonus, your other physical stats will be about the same.