[adamu]

I don't know.

Aria said this metaplane even has a matrix representation...

Why wouldn't they have some form of security?

If these mole people go here for weddings all the time, why couldn't a lot of them show up for a concert?

And there is certainly no reason music couldn't be even cooler on a metaplane - the fluff is full of references to bands mixing astral manifestations with their meat world music, or having parallel displays on the astral. Music can incorporate a lot of emotion - the astral would be great for it.

So our next move in this conversation could be - as you say - getting some carrots into the deal - getting her to help us with all those things you're concerned about in exchange for us biting the bullet and going there...

[Jack_Spade]

If we are talking about the Court of Shadows metaplane, yes, there is a matrix and rigging equivalent. But as I understood this, we'd be using astral (combat) rules, which reduce us to our mental attributes for all actions (which is for a physical adept like Isaint a bit of a problem).
Though, maybe I'm mistaken about that.

Aria, can you clarify?

And I'm sure they have security - just not anything we can trust (remember, some of our opponents are from the House of Flowers themselves). In essence we have to act on their turf with their rules (and we know very well how fair these rules are)

Our concert would not be for the masses (unless the Flowers allow all the unwashed citizens of Below on their holy ground) but for the wedding guests. That's the original reason behind the concert - getting a crowd that limits our opponents ability to act and interfere.

[adamu]

IC: there is no question we would be at a disadvantage, operating on alien turf.
Al will continue to resist going to such a place, for that reason and for obvious role-playing reasons.

OOC - I think the idea of all this is to give us an opportunity to challenge ourselves out of our comfort zone.
Of course part of the game is trying to stack the odds in our own favor, but then sometimes you need to go where the game takes you.
I still think it would be great fun, both as a gaming challenge and to see how Al reacts to such an experience.

If we are undecided at this point, then we need to do one of several things:

1) Figure out a way to get the job done properly without going to the metaplane.
2) Decide how important it is to us to keep the deal with the old guy.
3) Come up with a way to shift the incentives one way or the other (more carrots to going - benefits we can arrange, cool magical rewards, whatever; or more whips to not going - but most of our characters tend to get fanatically resistant when that card is played)

[Jack_Spade]

I'm in conflict here: I certainly enjoy the more exotic locations and challenges we face, but on the other hand I do want to stay true to Isaint's character concept which is pretty much the opposite of letting your friends go into danger without doing everything possible to avoid said danger.

and yeah, summarized that up quite well.

Number 2 I can answer with: Very. Isaint is bound by his word and mentor spirit.

Now, an assault on the real world Lyonesse would be fun too

[adamu]

Okay, so we're getting there.

Al won't quit as long as Isaint stays; again, a mentor spirit thing, Al can't abandon his friends. Or, as he sees them, his co-workers.

So DECIDED: we see the job through.
That takes walking away from negotiations with Cara off the table.

Assault on real world island would not be a good idea (with anyone else I'd assume you were joking...).

Metaplane, there could be trouble during or after wedding.
Real world, there will definitely be huge trouble just to get started, then there could still be trouble during or after the (blood-drenched, body-strewn) wedding.

So our choices for location (which seems to be the main problem) are:
1. Metaplane Lyonnesse
2. Somewhere totally different from Lyonnesse

I think maybe there is an OOC preference among most of us to go for the metaplane thing, but we need to justify it with our characters...

So we think of ways to sweeten the pot (since threats always meet with fierce reactionary resistance).

So what can we get, in terms of help with current job and/or future rewards/benefits if we do this metaplane thing?

[Aria]

Think that sums it up nicely...as a GM I thought it might be interesting to send you there...but I'm not going to railroad you in to it!  So...IC character justifications required...will have a mull!!!  Note to self: don't use threats to get you there 

[Mercy Merchant]

Robyn needs no convincing.  She has spent 40 years travelling to new and different places and this is just another one.  Besides, she would follow Al to the ends of the earth and back and even to other planes; at least until he tells her he does not want her.  But until that happens, if it happens, her heart dictates that she goes where he goes.

[adamu]

Well, I know lots of RL people in deep denial about the actual practices of their own tribes/nations/organizations, so dear Cara may not necessarily know whereof she speaks...but...

Aria - correct me if I'm wrong, and I can't search for the references here at work, but I thought the Flowers kidnapping people for sex slavery and drug experimentation was pretty much established fact/canon....?

Is that not the understanding our characters have gained?

[Aria]

I could be wrong but I think that is something you've decided for yourselves from your interactions with the Maiden...and I don't disagree that she strongly gave you that impression!!!  She grabbed the girl, and drugged and used magic on her to make her compliant...she said something along the lines of bringing her in to the House...or something like that...again, I think the sex slave thing was something you conjured up?!?  But granted it has been a while so if anyone wants to contradict me this could very well be Cara's naiveté speaking!

[Aria]

[Thursday June 18th, 2076, ~10:25, Nightside Market, London Below, London]
 
Isaint broke out of the crowd in time to see Natasha buried in a tender embrace by a bloody big troll standing at one of the exits of Nightside.  Her horns nearly scraped the roof of the cavern overhead but of most note was the extensive thorn tattooing on her face and flowers scrimshawed into her horns.  She was flanked by two whipcord thin elves with similar ink who nonchalantly surveyed Isaint as he stepped clear
 
“Move along overworlder, the Lady has requested Ward of the House of Flowers.  We recognise a kindred spirit and are granting that boon…”
 
***
 
Al ushered the remaining family back away from the crowd, the atmosphere suddenly more hostile with the appearance of drawn weapons and what’s left of the group is glad to be able to seek shelter in the door of a nearby shop.  Incense wafts out, a heady combination of jasmine and francincence.  A haggard old orc lifts her creaking bones out of the chair behind the counter, her yellowed and cracked tusks grinning up at the runners
 
“How can House Laésal assist you fine people…?”
 
She has a tattoo of a thorned branch twisting down the side of her wrinkled face…it appears to be weeping tears of blood…
 
***
_#54

[Thursday June 18th, 2076, ~10:25, Nightside Market, London Below, London]

"So less'n you figure the addition o' one new joygirl ta yer stable's worth death by gutshot fer you an' the brat, you'll git that girl back here an' pronto."

The old lady cackles “Joygirl?  We are House Laésal, you got us mixed for House Valerian?  Phah, Overworlders, you know nothing!  Shoot me would you?  Well I guess ‘Ole Beth can’t stop ya if that’s ya plan, but ain’t it ‘eye for eye’ that your bloody book tells you?  The Maid ain’t going to take kindly to that…fact nobody down ‘ere is going to let you leave if you gun me anna boy down!  ‘Ere, let ‘Ole Beth give you something to ease ya mind…”

***

As the grenade sails through the air towards the troll one of the elves lithely steps into its path and catches it left handed…only to look comically surprised a moment later when it detonates the fine mist across him, Natasha and the other ‘Flowers’.

Natasha crumples immediately under the chemical assault and the two elves follow her to the ground…the troll however, whether from her more robust physique or some other means simply glares at Isaint, the chemical stew dripping slowly down her features.  Her voice is still deep and beautiful but the anger is clear

“You want the toy?  Fine, take her, she is broken now anyway.  But know this Overworlder… I, the Poisoned Maiden of House Laésal, pronounce Bane on you and yours…all in Below will turn on you, only a Great House can shelter you now, and I doubt you will have that grace…”

The crowd mutter restlessly and begin to close ranks around the slumped forms and the towering troll, hands reach for shivs and other impliments of suffering…

“Let them go.  No blood in Nightside… I have a gift for you too crusader…” and she flicks a paper sachet towards Isaint…

***
_#56

There you go!  For reference it all kicks off around p75 of the CoP thread

This may take you directly there...or it may not: p76

[Jack_Spade]

There was one more piece:

“Overworlders and their rules…it does not work like that down here pretty boy!  She has asked for Ward and it has been granted, she is under the protection of House Laésal now.  She isn’t claimed by one of the other Houses now is she?  That would be a different matter entirely.  I think not though, I would have heard…she will make a pretty toy.  Now go away, you are boring me!  If you want to live much longer down here I suggest you hire a guide, Below is not a place for the likes of you!”

It was the "claiming children and calling them toys" bit that Isaint called slavery. 

[Aria]

Not disputing your interpretation of events, just your application of that intel to an assumption about the practices of the entire House! Again, not saying it was unreasonable, given that the Maiden was the primary agent of the House, but now you have to weigh that against Cara's word!

[Jack_Spade]

No problem there: If what she claims is true, they won't have any problems fulfilling those requests. 

[adamu]

There was some other info about the Flowers kidnapping people to test their drugs on until they died or went crazy.
Seems like that was either before or after turning them out as sex slaves.

Was that my imagnination?

Does anyone remember where that was from?

[adamu]

Not disputing your interpretation of events, just your application of that intel to an assumption about the practices of the entire House! Again, not saying it was unreasonable, given that the Maiden was the primary agent of the House, but now you have to weigh that against Cara's word!

Ultimately sort of irrelevant what is or isn't true - once Al believes a thing...