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[5eOoC] 2075/6: Stormy Waters [Persistent World; recruitment always open]

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pistolgrip

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« Reply #2010 on: <07-23-15/1015:40> »
If I need to roll for running, let me know. I just assumed the family would be slower than I am.

As a random question, does a cyberhand with agility enhancement provide a dice pool bonus on firing a pistol? What about strength enhancement for recoil? If not, would a partial/full cyberarm?
Not sure what raw says but I've always assumed that for combat benefits you need a full limb. Sure, a hand would have good crush strength but that's not going to assist a punch... Etc

As far as I know, RAW says that partials only help with things that are solely the domain of the partial limb. So picking a lock would be a cyberhand thing, but aiming a gun is shoulder down.

Quote from: SR5 Core
Cyberlimbs have their own Strength and Agility ratings. When a particular limb is used for a test (such as leading an attack with your cyberarm), use the attribute for that limb (natural or cyber); in any other case, take the average value of all limbs involved in the task. If a task requires the careful coordination of several limbs, use the value of the weakest limb. The attributes of partial limbs (including cyberhands and –feet) may be enhanced, but their attributes only apply for tests directly involving those limbs (such as a Strength Test when gripping something with an enhanced cyberhand).

So it looks like a cyberarm would be good for pistols, punches, knives, and clubs, but you might need two for assault rifles and combat axes. A cyberhand would be good for anything where grip mattered, but not for larger motions (such as the aforementioned). That really just leaves the question of the partial cyberarm. If your elbow down is all cyber, does this give you anything a cyberhand doesn't (besides a few extra capacity)? I'm supposing not, but I find myself wishing it did. It seems like a cyber'd-up street sam is, in almost all ways, less practical than a physical adept (in SR5 anyway).

Kinkerbell

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« Reply #2011 on: <07-23-15/1025:36> »
Unfortunately, it kind of gets into a lot of grey, non RAW areas. I would say that from the elbow down (including, arguendo the joint) would be good for pistols or any kind of one handed work that didn't directly involve lifting a ton of weight, since most of the adjustments you make to shoot or swing are below the shoulder, and not having to account for muscle tremors or unsteady hands is going to make you much more accurate. I think that falls under RAI, though. As you said, a cyberhand is great for grip but not much else that's immediately obvious. Sure, you can hide a pile of stuff in it, and you can do amazing feats of dexterity (flipping a knife, dealing cards, playing the piano), but as written it doesn't do a whole lot else for you mechanically.

I'd half-agree with you. Adepts have a much longer upper end, since their PP just keeps growing with time. But adepts have a much harder time boosting their stats as a persistent effect, and they require karma that is at a premium during chargen. 'Ware just costs money, and if you trick a cybersammie out just right, you can come in with three or four stats at their full augmented bonus and be able to hot-swap your skills, as well as being fast as hell and twice as heavy.

Different styles of play, and you kind of have to munchkin that 'ware a little to get the most bang for your buck. You wanna see something dirty though, build a sammie with biocompatibility and adapsin, and transhuman prototype. Max out the starting cash, blow extra karma, and take indebt 15 and you should clock in around 600k. If you go all alphaware, you're looking at 7 essence worth of play with a 0.6 essence multiplier. I defy a starting adept to match anything that comes out of that setup.

gilga

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« Reply #2012 on: <07-23-15/1116:01> »
The balance is with lost opportunity, adept is stronger than a street samurai. Anything the samurai can do with augmentations the adept can also do with augmentations. They have the same essence value. The adept can also use power points when she feels that adept powers are more efficient. However, to be an adept in the first place you had to invest in magic priority, so either you gave up 3 points (for Magic B) or you have less edge than the sammy. 
With the points the Sammy did not invest in magic he could have gotten a big pile of money for augmentations, more skills or better attributes or edge.

pistolgrip

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« Reply #2013 on: <07-23-15/1153:57> »
That's a really interesting idea, KB. I admit it sounds powerful. But In Debt XV is not to be taken lightly either. All I really meant to say is that if you have priority B adept/E money vs E mundane/B money, all things constant, you'll probably get more out of 6 Power Points than 270k nuyen. Admittedly the cyber guy has more full-time bonuses and isn't affected by background count, but the adept isn't prone to being hacked or blasted by, say, a pulse spell, and his bonuses are full-body rather than just with one arm. Plus, at the end of the day, the adept has his essence still around which is good for getting healed. And of course adepts advance quickly, as mentioned.
But then, I personally don't much care for the "hands & feet for armor" angle or the metatype max vs current stat for cyberlimb custom STR/AGI, even though they're both RAW (and probably RAI).

Aria

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« Reply #2014 on: <07-23-15/1237:02> »
Apologies for my lack of IC so far...RL (sick kids) has been crimping things a tad.  I will try and get up some OoC to keep you moving along...otherwise feel free to IC getting your arses handed to you by malicious spirits  8)
Excel Cha Generators <<CG5.26>> & <CG6.xx> v36

pistolgrip

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« Reply #2015 on: <07-23-15/1245:01> »
Ha!

I have a spare action this round anyway, so I guess I'll explicitly activate my focus. Though in the future I'd probably prefer to activate it first thing each morning. Although I guess we didn't get a morning this time.
Speaking of focus, for clerical purposes:

Purchase: Qi Focus (tiger tattoo)
Nuyen: 6000
Karma: 4

gilga

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« Reply #2016 on: <07-23-15/1513:01> »
Dodge: 3#18d6t5 5 7 4
let me know if Solo is hurt (I may want to use edge)

Kinkerbell

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« Reply #2017 on: <07-23-15/1654:50> »
otherwise feel free to IC getting your arses handed to you by malicious spirits  8)

@Aria: Psh, I ain't afraid of no ghost.

@gilga: Yeah, the adept can do what the sammie can do with augmentations, but if you go magic B, then you have less money as you pointed out, and the augs you do take are lowering your already diminished magical attributes, since you magic goes down at the same rate as your essence. Its possible to do a split decision, but you have to powergame the bejesus out of it, and its still not pretty. I agree that it is a comparison of long game vs. short game. Adepts are categorically better after a certain point in karma, but Sammies start with so much power right away.

@pistolgrip: Hacked, my pretty ass. Unless you're using something that REALLY needs external access (like downloadable skillwires), grab the internal router cyberware and hook yourself up as a closed net. You get internal wireless functionality without actually being wireless, which takes out one of the big problems Street Samurai have in SR5.

pistolgrip

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« Reply #2018 on: <07-23-15/1702:05> »
@pistolgrip: Hacked, my pretty ass. Unless you're using something that REALLY needs external access (like downloadable skillwires), grab the internal router cyberware and hook yourself up as a closed net. You get internal wireless functionality without actually being wireless, which takes out one of the big problems Street Samurai have in SR5.

Didn't know that was a thing. Nice!
Alright, maybe I'm just bad at cyber. I'm still not much past "mediocre" in my understanding of SR5, really.

Kinkerbell

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« Reply #2019 on: <07-23-15/1706:00> »
I'd say you're doing pretty good so far! And it wasn't a thing until Chrome Flesh came out, which gave cyberware a desperately needed toolkit. If you're not too choosy about what you put in your body, you can get really, really brutal. Essence- and nuyen-affordable initiative enhancements FTW. In the underground there's a really good street doc that can help you IC if you would like a couple OOC suggestions about some upgrades/lateral shifts in your 'ware.

Not saying you need them! I'm just trying to be helpful. I know I'm Jenny-come-lately in this game.

adamu

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« Reply #2020 on: <07-23-15/1718:49> »
@Aria - sorry to hear about your kids.

Good luck to you and them!

pistolgrip

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« Reply #2021 on: <07-23-15/2045:57> »
@KB - I didn't even know that was a book. Maybe that's where my problem lies.
I'm open to some upgrade suggestions. I made some errors in the initial build process in the first place, so I'm a bit... underwhelming. That, and I have a hard time keeping up with posting to pad my in-game cash/karma. But anyway, I should be able to take the bullets and that's what matters for now.

Triskavanski

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« Reply #2022 on: <07-23-15/2057:12> »
Yeah, I've been a bit sick myself as well. My head is reving up though trying to understand the terror that is comming down on us though.
Concepts are great, but implementation sucks. Why not improve it?

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Kinkerbell

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« Reply #2023 on: <07-24-15/0150:53> »
Awwww, c'mon, its only four spirits! How bad could it possibly be?

In other news, London Below has its own entry on obsidianportal now! There's only one place of interest so far, but its got three locales in it.

And finally, in an effort to be useful we have:

Init order!
Solo: 35 [I think] (Attacks unmanifested spirit)
Isaint: 30 (Shot that bitch right in the face! Is now following family)
Nitro: 30 (Hotsimming! Driving! Not running over a spirit!)
Goodnight: 29 (Activated focus, sent spirit ahead, walking towards the fray)
Unbound F8 Spirit (Goodnight's): 25 (Manifesting)
Smiley: 23 (Ran back towards the family, kicked in overwatch as well. The spirits are going to have a terrible day if they try for the family)
Aaron: 18 (Nocked an Arrow, is following the family, has declared overwatch as near as I can tell))
The Frenchman: 19 (Driving like the proverbial chiropteroid out of a hot locale)
Al: 8 (Activates full defense. Charges spirit. Gets brass balls award)
Mel: ?? (GTFOing, and rightly so. Also acting as a decoy)
Enemy Fire Spirit: ?? (Has not declared. Needs to defend against Al, Solo, and being hit by a car)
Enemy Water Spirit: ?? (Has not declared)
Enemy Earth Spirit: ?? (Has not declared)
Enemy Air Spirit: ?? (Has not declared)
The Family: ?? (Running like hell)
« Last Edit: <07-24-15/1026:15> by Kinkerbell »

obidancer

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« Reply #2024 on: <07-24-15/0310:48> »
Thanks Kinkerbell,
And I was hoping Hallucination (Saithor) would go with the Frenchman in his car. Always good to have a Shaman in the car when pursued by spirits.
Rick Deckard - Circles of Fate
Kachina - Shaking the Shadows