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Suicidal Player Stories

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Leevizer

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« Reply #15 on: <08-11-14/0359:24> »
Every party I've ever been in or ran in every setting of every rpg after the age of 14.

Then they aren't honest to their feelings or the NPCs in the groups have either been obvious good guys or obvious bad guys. Hell, if you don't have a Johnson, corrupt town official or whoever who acts like a dick and the players want to shoot him, I think something's wrong. You need to tempt your players into moral dilemmas, I think. Not force them to doing the good/bad thing, but tempt them to.

"fuck this im gonna kill whoever i want" is a FAR cry from a moral dilemma. What you're doing here is called "moving the goal posts" and it is a cheap tactic.

The actual wording was "Fuck the main quest. I'm gonna go kill people that I want to kill.". Which to me sounds like killing that one important NPC because he's a dick. I kill people who I want to kill even if they are important to the plot. I find that essential to portraying my character correctly.

Poindexter

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« Reply #16 on: <08-11-14/0417:24> »
Every party I've ever been in or ran in every setting of every rpg after the age of 14.

Then they aren't honest to their feelings or the NPCs in the groups have either been obvious good guys or obvious bad guys. Hell, if you don't have a Johnson, corrupt town official or whoever who acts like a dick and the players want to shoot him, I think something's wrong. You need to tempt your players into moral dilemmas, I think. Not force them to doing the good/bad thing, but tempt them to.

"fuck this im gonna kill whoever i want" is a FAR cry from a moral dilemma. What you're doing here is called "moving the goal posts" and it is a cheap tactic.

The actual wording was "Fuck the main quest. I'm gonna go kill people that I want to kill.". Which to me sounds like killing that one important NPC because he's a dick. I kill people who I want to kill even if they are important to the plot. I find that essential to portraying my character correctly.

noted.
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ZeConster

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« Reply #17 on: <08-11-14/0952:35> »
Merely pissing off a Johnson is +1 Notoriety: murdering one because you don't like their personality would get you quite a few more points.

Wolfshade

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« Reply #18 on: <08-11-14/1835:52> »
Heh, heh.......Our group was double crossed by a Johnson (We knew he was a bad-ass, did not know he was a Banshee......yes, elf vampire)  I was playing an unusually tough and.........direct Troll.  Walked in to confront said Johnson, and the expected fight started.  The GM kinda spaced that I had strapped two claymores to my chest under my clothes and armor (made a pretty good palming role for that) Jonson went all Banshee on us and I looked at the GM, mimed holding the detonator and said "Beep".     Oddly survived, barely. Jonson mush though.  Got notoriety points for that for some strange reason.....  ;D

martinchaen

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« Reply #19 on: <08-11-14/1943:48> »
We had player try to attack a Mr. Johnson we'd just performed a job for and had no reason to suspect.

The job was to pick up an enclosed semitrailer carrying an APC, and we'd gotten the job do e pretty well. The player was in the back of. the truck with a captured bad guy we knew was likely Triad, and the Johnson was Yakuza. We get to the drop off location, and the player comes jumping out of the back slinging spells at the Johnson, to which we all go "The fuck...?". Ended up with my character shooting the player center mass with a stick-n-shock burst, knocking the character out. The rest of us didn't feel like getting our pnkies cut off, so we turned the character over to the Johnson, who barely survived, as an apology for our actions.

Poindexter

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« Reply #20 on: <08-11-14/2019:33> »
WAY back in the day i had a player who believed every dangerous obstacle he faced must certainly be an illusion, and would ignore them. If it was a waterfall of magma, he'd walk through it. A swarm of poisonous hornets? walk through it. Raging draco-beast? Walk through it. Didn't matter what game or what system, if there was a way to fool someone visually, be it magical, psychic, or technological, he'd assume that's what was happening every damn time.
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PiXeL01

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« Reply #21 on: <08-12-14/0631:48> »
Many years ago I ran for some friends of mine and the edition was 3rd. The run was a simple hostile extraction of a midlevel manager. The company were expecting company and had put a bodyguard on him just for good measures. The runner teams counted seven members, though two decided they did not need any of the others and could do it all individually.
First the sneaking katana wielding adept fails horridly due to lots of bad rolls, but refuses to call in the rest of the team for help and gets arrested.
The Giant then decides to kidnap the manager's little girl and use her as trade. He tapes her up in a phonebooth and calls the manager. Due to corp security adviced the manager not to cooperate, he declines and the giant axes the little girl in half before cutting the feed. The giant then goes to a cafe across from a lone star station and sits outside having a cop of coffee while considering how to get the adept out. Cue SWAT team and a dead giant ... after that SWAT was renamed to SMAT, but that is another story.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #22 on: <08-14-14/0022:47> »
'Tempting into a moral dilemma' is great.  Acting like a spoiled 3-year-old - "Fuck the main quest, I'm gonna go kill people that I want to kill." - is something completely different. This guy is in the game to release stress and just kill people who annoy him.  Y'know what?  This guy doesn't belong in a roleplaying game, he belongs on the couch, playing Duke Nukem or Halo or Diablo, because instead of acting like a thinking person - you know, showing restraint and all - he's acting on impulse, "gonna go kill people that I want to kill", and treating the game as a first-person shooter.

I'd a) put a bullet (or arrow, or sword, or whatever) through the character's head for acting like a fuckwit and getting ME hunted along with his ass, then b) drop the player like a hot frying pan.  I might be nice about it - 'dude, you just need to destress.  Why'n't you couch-flop and rock the 360?' - but he would not be in the game any more.
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Leevizer

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« Reply #23 on: <08-14-14/0143:47> »
'Tempting into a moral dilemma' is great.  Acting like a spoiled 3-year-old - "Fuck the main quest, I'm gonna go kill people that I want to kill." - is something completely different. This guy is in the game to release stress and just kill people who annoy him.  Y'know what?  This guy doesn't belong in a roleplaying game, he belongs on the couch, playing Duke Nukem or Halo or Diablo, because instead of acting like a thinking person - you know, showing restraint and all - he's acting on impulse, "gonna go kill people that I want to kill", and treating the game as a first-person shooter.

So roleplaying an impulsive or even psychotic character is outright wrong and unacceptable? Especially Shadowrunners are known for their "professionalism" and "high ethics". Our GM had many people we knew we wanted to kill in our games. And we ended up killing most. Some because the plot dictated so, others because he was an intolerable asshole/someone doing wrong stuff so we didn't like him. So it screws up the main plot? Well, maybe you should have a safeguard in place to keep the plot from completely derailing or moving into something different. Unless we, as gamemasters, only want the players to be along for the story that we tell.

Choo Choo.

Lucean

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« Reply #24 on: <08-14-14/0206:42> »
Leevizer, important distinction here:
You write about acting together as a team. Wyrms complaint was about a single player pulling this off.

If you as a group decide to do something it's a whole world of different from a single person doing something the rest might not agree with. So don't interpret too much.

Leevizer

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« Reply #25 on: <08-14-14/0211:58> »
Leevizer, important distinction here:
You write about acting together as a team. Wyrms complaint was about a single player pulling this off.

If you as a group decide to do something it's a whole world of different from a single person doing something the rest might not agree with. So don't interpret too much.

Ah, tru dat, yo.

True, that does change the formula around a bit. But then it just becomes situational. I remember one time when there was a man just... Standing in a room. Paranoia settled in and I shot him whilst another player was negotiating via phone (with us listening, of course) due to thinking of him as a threat. The other players disagreed and told me not to do it via messaging IC and saying it to me OOC, but I did it anyway. Turns out he was a bad guy, so all was good. Otherwise there might have been repercussions but if not overdone, this kind of stuff should enrichen the experience and create tensions between the player characters.

But I agree with the "killing people because I can" stuff is bad.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #26 on: <08-14-14/0244:37> »
So roleplaying an impulsive or even psychotic character is outright wrong and unacceptable? Especially Shadowrunners are known for their "professionalism" and "high ethics". Our GM had many people we knew we wanted to kill in our games. And we ended up killing most. Some because the plot dictated so, others because he was an intolerable asshole/someone doing wrong stuff so we didn't like him. So it screws up the main plot? Well, maybe you should have a safeguard in place to keep the plot from completely derailing or moving into something different. Unless we, as gamemasters, only want the players to be along for the story that we tell.

Choo Choo.

Well, no.  Roleplaying an impulsive and/or psychotic character - and when you have someone 'impulsively killing someone', they are by definition both impulsive and psychotic - is fine, if you want to play a couple games worth of combat, as the organization that the guy belongs (belonged) to - whether that's the city guard, Lone Star/Knight Errant, Saeder-Krupp, Aztechnology, the Yakuza, or the rest of the kid's gang, whatever - hunts the character down and makes an exAMple out of him.  If the GM doesn't 'set safeguards in place' - which really should be understood from the get-go, i.e. the above 'peoples is gonna weep in terror when dey remember what happens ta youse ', thus highly recommending that the characters don't play impulsive psychotic characters - then the game is going to quickly devolve into the other players scrambling time after time to keep the impulsive psychopath alive.  (And then the other players will decide whether or not that is worth it.)

ICA = ICC: In-Character Actions Result In In-Character Consequences.  In SR, the PCs never are the big guns; they get through life by being either too hard to find or not worth finding; punishing someone who randomly, and for no apparent reason besides 'I thought he was an asshole' (which really is random), kills your guys is not something not worth following up on.  That's simply the nature of the SR world, just like it is the real world.

Now, 'this is a bad guy doing bad things to good people, and he's hired you to do them for you, and he's an asshole about it' - turning a team of runners against you - that's not 'don't care about the plot', that's 'we're a team, and this guy is a dick AND he's doing bad things, and we have SOME of our souls left thank you very much, so put a few ounces of lead through his brainpan and let's go home'.  That's changing the direction of the plot.

In regards to your 'there was this guy in the room, and I got paranoid so I killed him, but he was a bad guy so it was okay' example, that's purely a matter of luck.  Or, you know, GM plans, or letting you get away with it; you killed the mole on impulse, so The Plan went ahead without some of the initial complications.  Sudden random killing of an unknown person in Shadowrun - when it comes to the PCs, that is - is not generally something that should be rewarded, though.  At least not IMO.
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Necrogigas

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« Reply #27 on: <08-14-14/0257:12> »
"Fuck the main quest. I'm gonna go kill people that I want to kill."
Seeing where that one line took the thread, here's the complete context of the quote, Player A wanted to go off on a personal side quest to finish a family vendetta. Players B, C, and D all argued against it since the main quest was far more important than his personal crap, thus Player A's declaration.
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #28 on: <08-14-14/0316:31> »
Well, that's somewhat more understandable.

On the central topic of suicidal players, though, I have played with someone who played, well, pretty consistently suicidally stupid characters.  He was anti-fascist and -racist, while every single one of his characters weren't just racist, they were outspokenly so.  We all liked the player, so we let him keep creating new characters when the above examples happened to his characters; by the third one, the assembled players decided that it was because he hated racists and fascists so much he created these characters, just so he could steer them into inevitable doom scenarios.

He was the one the superzombie decided might be worthy to be her 'mate' in the Fantasy Island adventure ... though for once he turned it down ...
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Leevizer

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« Reply #29 on: <08-14-14/0322:10> »
If only he had said that in character instead of as a player...