[Sir_Prometheus]

In the SR world, what is a soul?  Or Earthdawn?  Any hint of what happens when you die?  I'm partly thinking of Zebulon, who I guess WAS a Great Dragon, at some point, and then became a free spirit. 

The Metaplanes are called "the netherplaces" in earthdawn, aren't they?  Is there an afterlife metaplane?  Many?

[Mirikon]

There are very, very rare situations where a spirit is confirmed as being the 'ghost' of a dead creature. In fact, only two that I know of. Those two would be Zebulon and Dunkelzhan. In other words, two great dragons, at least one of whom died because he planned to become a spirit to guard the Bridge in the metaplanes.

For everyone else, we honestly have no clue. There are spirits who claim to be the ghosts of dead metahumans, but who can say if that spirit of 'Cleopatra' is actually Cleopatra's ghost, and not just patterned after a summoner's wishes at some point? This is the biggest reason why testimony of spirits is restricted in places that aren't the NAN.

[Sendaz]

The rule books don't go too far into this, though some of the novels tease a bit. Most ghosts appear to just be lifting the echo of the persona and using it as a model so to speak.


Was in one campaign where the elementalists (SR3 aspected sort) as they initiated would pick up more traits of their element as they advanced (fire got warmer to the touch, water was  always slightly damp, air had a constant small breeze around them, etc) and were rumoured to even be able to eventually transition into a full on elemental and depart (turned over to the GM as an NPC)

[Critias]

The official in-universe explanation is that ghosts exist, but no one knows  for sure if they're ghosts-ghosts, or just some sort of constructed magical being (just another spirit) that happens to take on the beliefs and form of someone who just died. 

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah, I thought it was pretty strongly suggested ghosts were a weird psychic echo, not actual souls.

Dunkelzahn came back as a spirit?  What book is that described in?

I'm betting Earthdawn might have more lore on this than Shadowrun.  Anybody good with their earthdawn lore? 

[cantrip]

Dunkelzahn came back as a spirit?  What book is that described in?

IIRC, The Dragon Heart Saga discusses this.

In ED, they had Nethermancers - but as to the question of where they are pulling 'souls' from - could still be spirits from other realms and such, not sure they ever detailed it.

[Mirikon]

That stuff has always been extremely murky. About the only people who 'know', in universe, would be MAYBE someone like Ghostwalker, or Dunkelzhan before he died, since Ghostwalker is commonly known to have the most knowledge of spirits of all the great dragons, and Dunkelzhan was known to have the most knowledge of magic of the great dragons before he died. Which makes sense, since by my reckoning they were two of the oldest dragons still alive.

[SirValeq]

In Earthdawn you could indeed summon a "ghost" of a person who's been dead a long time. Every reasonably experienced Nethermancer could do it.
Moreover, there is/was a Talent (magical skill) in Earthdawn available for every Discipline which allows the Adept to summon a deceased Adept of a higher Circle to act as his mentor.
So yes, there were spirits in Earthdawn that were actually ghosts (souls of dead Namegivers).

One has to remember about the lower mana level in Shadowrun, though. It prohibits Horrors from crossing over but might also prohibit other kinds of spirits (like these ghosts) from coming back to Earth as well.

[Cyclops61]

In the books they barely say anything about this, however whenever I've ran a campaign I've gone by the assumption that both spirits and some A.I. were metahumans in astral space or jacked out of their body. This always seemed most logical to me.

[psycho835]

There are very, very rare situations where a spirit is confirmed as being the 'ghost' of a dead creature. In fact, only two that I know of. Those two would be Zebulon and Dunkelzhan. In other words, two great dragons, at least one of whom died because he planned to become a spirit to guard the Bridge in the metaplanes.

Since you've mentioned it, any idea if the Big D is still there?

[Mirikon]

No. But I try to avoid going to places that might just be the first battlefront against things that make Cthulu look cute and cuddly. Just sayin'.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Since you've mentioned it, any idea if the Big D is still there?

The Dragon Heart catastrophe saga has the information on that.  TL;DR answer, 'yes, but'.  And it's a very weird 'but'.  But so was the entire trilogy, so ...

[Sengir]

Well, there was this one book with undead holocaust victims you get to kill once over...but it's best no to mention the war WAR!