[Mirikon]

Honestly? I really would caution against increasing the damage or AP any. You have a good chance of throwing balance right out the door with that. My advice? Assuming this is a Katana weapon focus, allow the fire effect to change the DV to (STR+3)P(Fire), and leave the rest as is. You're already getting the dice bonuses (and the ability to hit spirits) from the weapon focus thing, and the coolness of having a sword with fire on it that isn't an AR skin or a spell effect. That's pretty fragging epic, for a Shadowrun weapon, ESPECIALLY one in the hands of a shadowrunner that isn't a pet of one of the megacorps. But prismite is right, if you try adding the force to the DV and AP, you're going to get insane numbers. For instance, say you have a combat mage with STR 4, and their katana is a Force 4 weapon focus with the fire and what not, using that ruling. That makes it a BASE damage of 11P, -7 AP, doing +1 per net hit as normal. That means you're doing more damage with a sword than the street sammy is with a Medium Machine Gun and APDS ammo. Then you have spells like Increase STR, Analyze Device, and so on. It starts getting nasty, fast. And then you have the sickening realization that this could apply to other weapons, too, like a Monofilament Whip. Which (assuming all things being equal) would start at 16P, -12 AP, or BETTER DAMAGE THAN AN ASSAULT CANNON. And this is just at Force 4, not nearly the most powerful weapon focus that could be made. And after the rest of the group sees him waving that around, they're going to want the same thing, so they can keep up, and suddenly you're in a Shadowrun game where Immortal Elves and megacorps come to YOU for the latest toys.

There is "This would be pretty cool!" and then there's "Heh, let's give this level 8 character Bracers of Relentless Might and a +6 Flaming Blast Icy Blast Vorpal Scimitar!" Sometimes, no matter how hard the player works, and no matter how cool it is, a bad idea is still a bad idea. Keep the damage the same, but let it be fire instead of normal, and he'll have his badass weapon without breaking the game, or getting the rest of the group starting to want similarly broken items.

[prismite]

Good points Mirikon.

But lets flip the script for a minute ... what if the character in question is not a magic user, and thus, isnt creating a magical foci with the weapon? Would you still leave it as just Fire or would you change it at that point?

Just picking your brain.

[Mirikon]

If the user isn't Awakened, then they cannot activate the fire, or anything else. Because magic items in Shadowrun aren't like magic items from D&D. Enchant something in D&D, and it stays the same, and any idiot can pick it up and use it. In shadowrun, magic items are just a fancy nozzle to help direct the flow of mana from the hose (aka the Awakened individual). Take the nozzle off the hose, and it... is a paperweight?

Now, if you're asking whether a katana turned into, say, a counterspelling focus but is otherwise the same, then yes, I'd let them still have the fire damage, and no, I wouldn't change my stance on increasing the damage or AP.

[cantrip]

Mentioned binding a spirit of fire to the blade today.  If he was going to pick a element he would of picked electricity but they don't have a primal lightning.   Also he didn't want to have to bargain with his blade to make it ignite or do something as well seeing how spirits in shadowrun can be ornery and temperamental at times.

Depending how you GM spirits in your world, you could probably come up with something that makes sense if you want to allow electricity.

If you were going to bind a spirit, it could be an air spirit that was conjured from the heart of a storm (so a lightning elemental affect would be appropriate).

Or if you stick with just elements you could require a portion of Elemental Earth and Elemental Air - to represent lightning (mimicking true life so to speak). You could also have the Elemental Air gathered from a massive storm that the runners have to spend some time in -- instead of running away from! 

Heck - it's your world, just have Elemental Lighting as a unique one-off.

Just some random ideas! 

[prismite]

I guess what I was implying is that a katana (for example) that is forged out of a magical metal is still a katana. Yes, it could serve as a focus, but surely a magical metal could (and thats emphasized) have a non-magical property that makes it valuable to a mundane as well as an awakened.

Something as trivial as the the item being lighter than normal. Or things like that. I feel that there is room for flavor in everything, it doesn't always have to be a numbers game (which I tell my players ALL THE TIME)!!

[RulezLawyerZ]

I feel that there is room for flavor in everything, it doesn't always have to be a numbers game (which I tell my players ALL THE TIME)!!

But... but... then how will we know when we win?

[Tarislar]

Its just a flaming Aura, not a flame thrower, so I can't see it as being a HUGE bonus in DV or AP.

For that matter, lets see what we have to match it up against.

A standard weapon focus needs Orichalum right.  I haven't looked into 5th Ed enchanting but it was like 1+Reach # of units IIRC in the old days.

And what did that get you ?   Adding Force # of Dice & it avoids the Elemental Immunity to weapons & counts as a Vulnerability weapon against things that have a vulnerability.

So, it doesn't change the DV at all to make something Magic.

So I'd require at least Reach+1 # of units of the Pure Fire stuff.  (So 3?)  Which is like 4.5 Million $$.

Adding "Elemental" Effects from Fire Combat spells seems like a good start.   
+1 DV at the very most, since really I think all that will do is make it equal to a combat axe, away from books but I think that is right.
AP is regularly -2 ?    Raw Fire Weapon is -6 ?     Maybe Split the Difference at -4 ?  Or just go a flat +1 Much like the DV boost.

The question is, no matter how imaginative or helpful the player is, are you creating something that is more powerful than anything else in game presently ?
I think as good as the Katana is, that even at +1 DV/AP its still weaker or at least similar to the Combat Axe & the Pole Arm,  so as long as that is the case, then I say charge him a lot, like Units worth to match up to the Orichalum amount.  And then let him go to town searching & paying to have it all forged by an enchanter.

Finally, I'd say that it only flames when "activated" so if its already turned on in its sheeth then THAT is a problem, as it burns it from the inside, but if he takes the action to "power on" the weapon like you do w/ any other foci, then that is when the flame aura appears & the added abilities kick in.

That to me seems like a decent "balance"

[OneofSorrow]

After listening to all the suggestions and comments, all of them very good by the way I'm going to let him build his sword and use the stats of a katana to reflect the masterful quality of the blade and then let the blade deal fire damage along with the physical so it would be just a (Str+3P(Fire)) weapon.  He seems to be cool with that and still is going to go through with it even if it he doesn't get like a +1 or a +2 to DV.  The sword he is picked is a Jian, a chinese straight sword, he likes chinese sword and says the katana is way to over used in his opinion.  His plan is to actually use run and gun and learn wudang sword to compliment it.

[Ryo]

I have to disagree with the people who are saying that +Force DV is too much. If you think a Katana with Energy Aura is broken, then you think any conjurer capable of summoning a Fire Spirit is broken.

Typical Force 6 fire spirit that any starting character could summon has Unarmed Combat 6, Agility 8, Strength 4. It thus rolls 14 dice to attack and does 10P(fire) -6 AP. Plus anything that attacks it back in Melee resists 12P(fire) -6 AP.

It's damn near impossible for a home made weapon foci to hit Force 6, since you're looking at an Artificing + Magic [formula Force] v. formula Force + telesma's Object Resistance test, with net hits determining final force. And you can't spend edge on this test, so no breaking the limit. Even with an amazing dice pool, a Force 6 weapon focus formula with max hits gives you 6 hits, against a dice pool of between 9 and 15, depending on where you think Ukkru falls on the object resistance table (It's an alloy, which would be 9, but its inherently magical, so it might get knocked down to 6 or 3). And you're expecting it to get 0 hits on that test to actually end up with a Force 6 weapon focus. Only way to reasonably achieve a Force 6 focus is with a team of artificers using a Teamwork test to increase the limit, since using a higher force formula would also give the opposed roll more dice, not to mention making the drain more fatal (Drain is equal to Formula Force, +2 per hit it gets on its Force+3/6/9 dice. Good luck surviving that even at Force 6.)

If he's lucky, he'll end up with Force 3. Combined with the bonus from a katana, that's Strength+6P(fire) -6 AP, same as a Force 6 fire spirit. And that's a spirit a conjurer can summon from creation. This sword is something only a prime runner could ever hope to acquire the pieces for, let alone craft. By the time he's actually able to use this thing in combat, a conjurer should be able to easily summon Force 8, 10 or 12 Fire spirits, which would easily outclass him in damage, AP and even dice pool.

[Mirikon]

I guess what I was implying is that a katana (for example) that is forged out of a magical metal is still a katana. Yes, it could serve as a focus, but surely a magical metal could (and thats emphasized) have a non-magical property that makes it valuable to a mundane as well as an awakened.

It would be a very pretty katana, that the team's mage realized he could bind and become more powerful with? Other than that, there really isn't any difference between a weapon focus and a normal sword. And it is not a magical metal. Only living things have magic. A weapon focus sword is constructed to channel mana from the bound mage's aura through the blade in a certain way. That is all. There is no inherent magical property of a weapon focus sword. Now, if you want some items that have inherent properties, even for mundanes, look at some of the minerals and alloys in Parageology.

I have to disagree with the people who are saying that +Force DV is too much. If you think a Katana with Energy Aura is broken, then you think any conjurer capable of summoning a Fire Spirit is broken.

No, because unlike with the sword you're talking about, a mage has to incur drain every time he summons a spirti. Also, unlike you, I have enough foresight to see where things can lead. You see, a mage of a possession tradition with Channeling would be able to summon a spirit and have it possess himself, gaining all the benefits of the spirit's powers, while enabling him to retain his own abilities. So then you have a mage with a katana that does +Force DV and AP, casting Increase (Attribute) spells, wearing armor, casting armor spells, getting a boost to attributes from having the spirit in them and, depending on spirit type, potentially gaining the spirit's elemental aura to thow on top of that, giving a FURTHER increase to AP and damage. (Oh, and gaining ITNW as well, because possessed.) At that point, only a dragon or a very high level initiate will have a chance against him.

[Tenlaar]

Also, unlike you, I have enough foresight to see where things can lead.

What a rude way to slide down the slipperiest slope possible and act like the absolute most power-gamey result is the only outcome.

[OneofSorrow]

Wow Mirikon you seem to think spirits are nice and cuddly.  I don't know about you but asking a spirit to possess you seems like a extremely stupid idea in the first place.  Not only are you letting this thing joy ride in your body you have to worry about it subverting you and over powering your personality and doing whatever it wants with your body.  But lets say for example you do this, first you have to summon your spirit.  Then while you are summoning it said adept is going to unload on you with a full auto burst of its yamaha raiden.  You have to worry about the bullets drilling you into chunky salsa while you are forcing a spirit to go into your body.  And you wouldn't need a dragon or a high level initiate to take you down either it take one sniper, lining up the mage who is raining fire down on people adding a extra hole to your head.  And if the spirit, which by the way are NOT HAPPY ABOUT BEING SUMMONED, some how subverts your will it probably going to take your sword and slit your throat to get rid of the pesky meat bag that dares summon it, providing the spirit possessing you doesn't burn out of your body. 
There is a reason people say scrag the mage first. 

[RHat]

Wow Mirikon you seem to think spirits are nice and cuddly.  I don't know about you but asking a spirit to possess you seems like a extremely stupid idea in the first place.  Not only are you letting this thing joy ride in your body you have to worry about it subverting you and over powering your personality and doing whatever it wants with your body.  But lets say for example you do this, first you have to summon your spirit.  Then while you are summoning it said adept is going to unload on you with a full auto burst of its yamaha raiden.  You have to worry about the bullets drilling you into chunky salsa while you are forcing a spirit to go into your body.  And you wouldn't need a dragon or a high level initiate to take you down either it take one sniper, lining up the mage who is raining fire down on people adding a extra hole to your head.  And if the spirit, which by the way are NOT HAPPY ABOUT BEING SUMMONED, some how subverts your will it probably going to take your sword and slit your throat to get rid of the pesky meat bag that dares summon it, providing the spirit possessing you doesn't burn out of your body. 
There is a reason people say scrag the mage first. 

First, the spirits of possession traditions are not the same as the spirits of other traditions (really, spirits of any one tradition aren't the same as spirits of any other tradition).  Second, he brought up Channeling, which makes your scenario impossible (your scenario is also problematic due to assumptions of foreknowledge, and assumptions of not having the spirit already summoned/bound).  Third, self-possession is a very normal thing for some of these traditions (Voodoo especially).

Spirits summoned by a Hermetic might be pissed off (though SR5's text does suggest otherwise), but the spirits summoned by a Shaman were bargained with, and certainly wouldn't be.  And the loa summoned by a houngan or mambo are worshipped as fragging gods.

Though I think we can all be pretty sure that Possession is going to be bound to Augmented Maximum in SR5, which will bring it somewhat more in line.

@Mirikon:  Seriously, dude, you could have found a much better way to say that.

[OneofSorrow]

I only know shadowrun 5th man so I'm not familiar with the 4th edition rules. So I will admit ignorance of those rules on my part.  Me and several others are foaming at the mouth for Street Grimorim

[RHat]

Still, it's actually SR5 rules that spirits don't, in general, "hate being summoned".  Probably not to pleased about the disrespect of oversummoning, but that's a different case - normal course of events, spirits aren't going to want to kill you for having summoned them.

Play them up as cantankerous or trying to get as much as they can while giving as little as possible - in fact, I encourage it - but if they're outright hateful and vengeful against you, you can't even properly roleplay most Magicians.