[ZeConster]

It may be because I have 0 experience with either, but "remove a gun module and click in another" seems like a less daunting task to me than "change a tire" or "go through 15 steps to change your oil without fucking it up".

[martinchaen]

That's assuming it's plug and play; my experience with modular weapon systems is that this is not the case.

Of course, I'm speaking from a real life background; shadowrun tech may be different for all I know. I'm just not in favour of making Automatics in particular an even more useful skill.

[JackVII]

I'm also a veteran, martinchaen, as well as a firearm owner. Just to make sure you understand you're not the only one with relevant first-hand real world experience. I know the importance of firearms maintenance and I do think it goes along hand-in-hand with learning to shoot. I really haven't met many civilian firearm owners who also don't care for their firearms after firing them at the range. According to the book, you can use active skills as substitutes for knowledge skills, so the skill appears to contain more than just the capability to perform the basic task but covers a broad swath of information.

When I field stripped an M16A2 to clean it, I tend to think of that as falling under the Firearms skill as basic maintenance. When the company armorer had to replace the hammer spring on my rifle after I noticed the firing pin leaving indents in the primer pocket without the round actually going downrange, I consider that the Armorer skill.

That's just me though and, like I said, I think the rifle in question should be changed using an Armorer skill check.

[martinchaen]

No worries, JackVII, merely speaking from my own experience and voicing my opinion; also, thank you for your service.

Looking at the SR5 universe, and given that guns are as ubiquitous as phones, and I don't think it's a stretch to think that the two skills should be used for different things. I'm merely advocating making Armorer more applicable as Automatics is already powerful and enough of a "must take" as it is.

[JackVII]

You too, man. I do agree about Armorer being not all that great. Like for instance, weapon modifications. Not only do you have to have Armorer to actually affect the mod, you pretty much need the relevant weapon knowledge skill to figure out if you can even do the modification in the first place. Seems like you should be able to use the Armorer skill to do that...

[Demon_Bob]

Trying to figure out what the Ruthenium Polymer Coating is Availability 16F, and cost = Rating x 5,000¥, when most of the gear it is on costs far less than that an doesn't even have a restricted availability.   It also seems serious change in the rules from most of the gear mods in SR5 that just give a limit bonus, and a wireless die pool modifier.  I expected something closer the Chameleon suit, which says in its description that it has a smart ruthenium polymer coating supported by a sensor suite.

[Kincaid]

Trying to figure out what the Ruthenium Polymer Coating is Availability 16F, and cost = Rating x 5,000¥, when most of the gear it is on costs far less than that an doesn't even have a restricted availability.   It also seems serious change in the rules from most of the gear mods in SR5 that just give a limit bonus, and a wireless die pool modifier.  I expected something closer the Chameleon suit, which says in its description that it has a smart ruthenium polymer coating supported by a sensor suite.

It's weird, but at least the Sleeping Tiger flavor text makes it clear that the suit is a loss leader for the company for other purposes.

[ProfessorCirno]

As I understand, Sleeping Tiger is a loss leader used for ruthenium coating itself.

[Kincaid]

As I understand, Sleeping Tiger is a loss leader used for ruthenium coating itself.

Exactly.  Shiawase is selling you the Sleeping Tiger at a loss so it can outfit its guards with something even better.

[Lynx]

I can strip a gun to clean it, I cannot build a gun.

I can change the oil on my car I cannot rebuild the engine.

If you ask a service person to build or modify a gun I am not sure how many can do that, I politely disagree that field stripping is Armorer and I fell you on the lets take something other than combat skills, however the cases above are extremely different.

YMMV

[martinchaen]

Lynx,

Then in my opinion, you have the Armorer and Automotive Mechanic skills at Rating 1 

Cheers,
Martin

[Vidnaut]

As GM I wouldn't allow you to take both. One forces you to make Called Shots unless not an option, the other penalizes non-CalledShots. So their penalties don't combine properly.

You're wrong on the nullifying part, by the way, it still works on higher penalties like that.

Wait, I thought the -1 penalty was for regular shooting actions but reduces the called shot penalty by 2.  Called shots aren't shots by themselves but modifiers for regular shooting actions, no?  So it's a net +1 for making a called shot and -1 for non-called shots.

The point on nullification is that if the penalty modifier of 2 from sharpshooter is applied before the halving of the penalty from Strive For Excellence it would just halve the value of the reduction and create a net neutral change in the dice modifier which results in a nullification of the benefit of taking Sharpshooter with Strive For Excellence.

Example: I go for the ankle (-8 modifier) and sharpshooter reduces the modifier by 2 (-6) then Strive for Excellence halves the modifier (-3) but I take a -1 modifier when I go to take the shot due to Sharpshooter's penalty to regular shooting actions so I wind up with a net -4 altogether.  This results in the same modifier I would have had with Strive For Excellence alone, nullifying the benefit of having Sharpshooter with it.  The other way around (Sharpshooter being applied AFTER Strive For Excellence) would have a net +1 to the roll.

Maybe I am reading it the wrong way, it's not explicit on where the penalty comes in on as Called Shots modify regular shooting actions (?) but are not shooting actions in and of themselves.

[SlowDeck]

This has probably been asked before. If so, I apologize.

But, can you load a minigun with gel rounds?

[Michael Chandra]

Wait, I thought the -1 penalty was for regular shooting actions but reduces the called shot penalty by 2.  Called shots aren't shots by themselves but modifiers for regular shooting actions, no?  So it's a net +1 for making a called shot and -1 for non-called shots.

All other ranged attack actions. So no, 2 less penalty on called shots, 1 more penalty on all non-called shots. And that doesn't combine with not being allowed to do non-called-shots.

[Vidnaut]

Wait, I thought the -1 penalty was for regular shooting actions but reduces the called shot penalty by 2.  Called shots aren't shots by themselves but modifiers for regular shooting actions, no?  So it's a net +1 for making a called shot and -1 for non-called shots.

All other ranged attack actions. So no, 2 less penalty on called shots, 1 more penalty on all non-called shots. And that doesn't combine with not being allowed to do non-called-shots.

Ah, so the bonuses from both positive qualities officially don't stack?