[KraakenDazs]

Hoping this one can be answered easily, just want to double check.

On a spellcasting roll:
If the number of hits (not net hits) you get (after applying the
limit or Edge spending) exceeds your Magic rating, the
spell’s Drain is Physical instead of Stun damage

I've read some posts of people using regeants on low force spells to avoid deadly drain damage, but aren't the rules stating the damage becomes physical anyway as long as the successes are above the magic rating? Or is it simply that since the Force is low, the drain, physical OR stun, will be small anyway, making it moot in which category it falls, being preferable to simply filling up your stun boxes anyway?

[Linkdeath]

You are correct. Even if you use reagents or you use Edge to blow the Limit, you still take drain based on your hits, not net hits.

Basically, you are pumping so much magical power through your body, more than what it can handle, and you pay the price.

[Top Dog]

What they're doing is casting high force spells (usually ones with a fixed effect based on force, such as indirect combat AoE's), and then using reagents to set the limit lower then it would normally be.

At least I think that's what you're referring to. If you do mean low force/high limit, they might erroneously think that you can avoid physical drain by casting low force spells with high (edged/reagentified) limits, because that's how it used to be, but then they're wrong.

[KraakenDazs]

What they're doing is casting high force spells (usually ones with a fixed effect based on force, such as indirect combat AoE's), and then using reagents to set the limit lower then it would normally be.

At least I think that's what you're referring to. If you do mean low force/high limit, they might erroneously think that you can avoid physical drain by casting low force spells with high (edged/reagentified) limits, because that's how it used to be, but then they're wrong.

Perfect, you both pretty much provided half the answer i was looking. I was curious as to why people lowered the limit through regeants (fixed effect based on force) OR using them to boost limit not force (for example, sustained health buff spells). he notion of damage going physical got me confused for a sec there, but it made sense for a character to waste ressources on getting like, zero-1 physical as opposed to 4-6 stun

Much appreciated!

[sn0mm1s]

Yes, reagents are used to avoid soaking high amounts of drain and/or sustaining a spell  that would normally need to be high force to be effective.

For instance, Increased Reflexes - for max effect would need 8+ hits. Without using reagents (or Edge) you would need to cast at a minimum a Force 8 spell - an insane amount of drain. You would be hard pressed to sustain that in a focus. So, you cast it at Force 1 and use reagents and/or Edge. You can get the same result as a Force 8+ spell but only have to soak 2P and you are able to sustain the spell in a level 1 focus.

[Michael Chandra]

Yeah, you can gather all you need from above. Reagents have 2 tricks for spellcasting.

Trick 1: Increase the Limit. While the drain may still become Physical, Drain is based on the Force so will be quite low. (And you can Sustain it easier through Foci/Concentration.)
Trick 2: Decrease the Limit. Prevent massive drain from becoming Physical, keeping you from dying and instead simply going unconscious.

[skuben]

Hi :-)

I understand increasing the limit (Cast at Force 1, and then raising the limit with reagents), but I don't understand decreasing the limit :-(

Would someone mind giving an example of decreasing the limit so I can get a better handle on it?

Thanks in advance

[JackVII]

@skuben:

Let' say I am a Mage with Magic (6), Spellcasting/Combat Spells (6). I know Lightning Bolt which has a Drain Value of (Force-3). I am facing an opponent who I really need to put down, but want to do it in a way that doesn't do me any lasting damage. I also have a handful of reagents.

I can choose to cast that Lightning Bolt at a maximum of Force 12 due to my Magic (6) as you can cast a spell at a Force up to twice your Magic rating. I have 14 dce to roll on the spellcasting test between my Attributes, Skills, and Specialization. Let's say I get lucky and roll 7 hits. My opponent rolls to dodge the spell and gets 3 hits, reducing my net hits to 4 hits and setting the damage from the spell at 16P (Force 12 + 4 net hits). BUT, because I didn't use reagents to set a limit, I now must resist against 9P drain (physical because the number of hits (7) is greater than my Magic (6) rating).

If I were to use 6 reagents to set the limit at 6 and using all of the other previous rolls, the spell would go off with 6 hits (even though 7 were rolled due to the reagent limit in place), still hit my opponent with 3 net hits (6-3), do 15P (Force 12+3 net hits) damage, but I would be facing 9S damage instead of 9P damage as the number of hits equals my Magic (6) rating due to the imposition of the limit from the reagents.

Someone correct me if I got anything wrong.

[skuben]

@JackVII

Perfect.  Thanks for that explanation.  So really you use it to cast the biggest spell you can and avoid physical drain 

Skuben

[Psikerlord]

hmm i get the feeling reagents ruin the balance of spell casting drain, especially at a meagre 140 a pop, or whatever they are. Who thought this was a good idea?

[Michael Chandra]

You still take an awful lot of drain when overcasting, even if you don't risk dying from it. Since Drain Damage is no longer treatable with First Aid, it means you're putting yourself out of the fight for that one big bang.

[sn0mm1s]

hmm i get the feeling reagents ruin the balance of spell casting drain, especially at a meagre 140 a pop, or whatever they are. Who thought this was a good idea?

They don't ruin the balance in regards to overcasting - they ruin the balance when casting low Force spells whose effects are based on hit/net hits. If you do any serious overcasting you will take drain. S or P really only matter in the long term and avoiding death. Taking large amounts of any type of drain in a fight will knock you out.

[RHat]

I've read some posts of people using regeants on low force spells to avoid deadly drain damage, but aren't the rules stating the damage becomes physical anyway as long as the successes are above the magic rating?

If and only if the number of hits after the limit is applied is greater than magic - if the limit is 3 and Magic is 5, Drain is Stun no matter how many hits you roll.