[Nomad Zophiel]

Oh, sure. I'm looking at doing that with my Social Adept. For 30 Karma and a 80,000 nuyen I can stuff Tailored Pheromones 3, Extended Voice Range (or whatever the one is that gives +1 to social rolls when speaking) and Mnemonic Enhancement 3 in him without sacrificing my 5 Power Points worth of starting Adept goodness. Should I be able to take that sixth power point for 10-13 karma (Initiation)? I'd say no.

Why Mnemonic enhancer, you may ask. Well, he's got Linguistics (Adept Power), Linguistics (Quality), Multitasking and Sustenance. So on a given day of downtime he can roll to learn several languages, 2 per day per multi-tasking thread just by keeping foreign language trids running on his commlink during all waking hours. That's anywhere from 4 to 10 per day depending on the GM's call. Each one is level 1, plus 2 for Linguistics (Quality) +3 for Mnemonic Enhancer. Net result: near fluency in any language with an entertainment industry at no Karma cost. . .except the 30 Karma to raise magic then sacrifice it on the altar of progress.

[Bradd]

Trouble is, adept metamagic mostly sucks, and there isn't much of it. If you don't allow the power points, they all max out metamagic after just a few initiation grades.

And I don't think (relatively) cheap power points are such a big deal. In the time it takes to earn an initiate grade or two, a samurai can easily afford something much better than you can get with 1-2 power points (like muscle toner 4). Eventually the 'ware gets a lot more expensive, but eventually the adept needs to start buying up magic instead of grades. It should work out.

[Critias]

Trouble is, adept metamagic mostly sucks, and there isn't much of it.

For the record, I'm workin' on that.   

[voydangel]

My personal take on the matter is that there should just be an adept only meta-magic called "Gain a power point", which is effectively identical to the optional rule. I like it this way, but I can totally see why some people wouldn't want that, as it tends to give adepts a pretty quick "return on investment" from karma early in the characters lifespan.

If, however, you are in the "don't like that optional rule" camp, then you could just charge a little extra for it... something like: "Current Initiate grade x 3" karma (in addition to the cost of gaining that rank of initiation).

So, 1st IG: 13k choose "Gain a power point" metamagic = 3k, total cost = 16k
2nd IG: 16k + 6k for the PP, total = 22k
3rd IG: 19k + 9k for the PP, total = 28k
4th IG: 22k + 12k for the PP, total = 34k
5th = 40, 6th = 46, 52, 58, etc. etc.

I suppose the other option is to make an adept only meta-magic called "Gain a power point" and allow this optional rule as well:

Optional Rule : Learning Meta Magic
If the gamemaster approves, Awakened characters can
learn metamagic techniques through other methods, in addition
to the one they acquire at each grade of initiation. It costs
15 Karma to learn a metamagic technique outside of initiation.
The maximum number of metamagic techniques that may be
learned is equal to the character’s Magic + initiation grade.

I suppose one final option might be to give adepts 1/2 (.5) of a power point when they initiate...

Anyone else use a house rule that is somewhere in between the RAW and the optional rule?

[Mäx]

Each one is level 1, plus 2 for Linguistics (Quality) +3 for Mnemonic Enhancer. Net result: near fluency in any language with an entertainment industry at no Karma cost. . .except the 30 Karma to raise magic then sacrifice it on the altar of progress.

Sadly doesn't really work like that, the Mnemonic enchanter does help you with test to see if you understand what someone is saying, but it doesn't actually raise the skil so its no help for your social adept if he's trying to infuence someone in a foreign language (which limits your social skills to your rating in the language used)
And while the Linguistict quality does actually raise the skill, the augmented max for skills is 1,5*current rating, meaning you need the language at least rating 2 to gain any benefit and at rating 4 to get the full +2.
I suggest talking with your GM about that second point, as i personally feel that Linguistics quality should ingnore the augmented skill limit as it's pretty much useless otherwise. Boosting your langue skill for 4 to 6 isn't nearly as important as boosting it from 1 to3 would be.

[Nomad Zophiel]

Good point on the Mnemonic for sure. The other I'll bring up at some point when it seems important, say the first time we have significant downtime.

Edit: I should take better notes. With some reworking I found my original design.
Tailored Pheromones 3
Vocal Range Enhancer
Genetic Optimization CHA
Enhanced Pheromone Receptors 2

Clocks in at a slightly more intimidating 30 Karma (buying Magic 5 to 6), 110,000 nuyen and 1 point of essence exactly. The actual implants will most likely be picked up piecemeal but the end result is an extra point of Charisma (available to purchase, not included in Karma cost), a burning desire to wear a respirator in crowds and a social skill bonus equivalent to a 2600 nuyen emotitoy. Its also every Social and Charisma augmentation I could readily find for active use rather than defense. Actually buying that 9th point of Charisma (for an elf) is another 45 Karma.

[voydangel]

If you start with a Dryad, or make a Level 2 or 3 changeling, you can grab Glamour as well which is worth +3 more to social tests. And if you wanna go crazy (and are willing to take a few minor setbacks) you can grab the increased olfactory changeling effect as well which gives an additional +2.

[Nomad Zophiel]

Yep, he's a Dryad, which means his neighborhood has almost as much detail in the backplot info as he does.

If you want to be truly gross start with a Dryad, add Surge III for Metagenic Attribute (CHA), Vomeralnasal Organ (the olfactory you mentioned above) and 15 points of negative qualities and Genetic Heritage or Exceptional Attribute (CHA), raising the elf/dryad's CHA to 4 min, 10 max, 15 augmented max, not that any augmentations directly boost Charisma and providing +5 to non-intimidation social skills when you're face to face. It also sets you back 70-80 BP. The character I'm currently playing has none of these except for being a Dryad.

Genetic Heritage eats .16 essence but is, ironically, the only option for Mages and/or Adepts to keep their Positive Qualities at or below 35.

But I think we've long since drifted WAY off topic, so I'll let it go.

[Wayfinder]

There is one way to increase your charisma score directly. Increase attribute spell can increase any physical or mental attribute. If you build a runner TEAM the numbers can get staggering. Imagine a troll tank character with willpower upped to the aug max, with armor spells applied, and active counterspelling. It's not just about what a character can do individually for a run but rather what they can accomplish together.

[Nomad Zophiel]

Entirely true, I just tend play a face because I'm basically 4th edition Magic and Matrix stupid.

Also keep in mind that a Face with 9 CHA and a modified max of 15 needs six hits on a force 15 spell to max out. Doable but not easy.

[Mäx]

Also keep in mind that a Face with 9 CHA and a modified max of 15 needs six hits on a force 15 spell to max out. Doable but not easy.

Only needs to be a force 9 spell, not that that makes it much easier, but at least a non initiate mage can cast the spell.
And considering the spell has only 2 drain, the mage can try to get those successes as many times as she wants to
Yea, finally wound a way to break the 50 die barrier for social skill diepool, with out using social modifiers(never noticed before how low the drain of increase attribute is)

[Nomad Zophiel]

The Force of the spell must equal or exceed the (augmented) value of the attribute being affected. SR4A - 208

I read that to mean that the Force must be equal or greater than the attribute will be after the spell is cast. You seem to be reading it as the force must equal or exceed the attribute before the spell is cast.

[FastJack]

I'm with Mäx on this one. The way I read the spell is that it's the attribute before the spell is cast. Mostly because you have no idea what the new value will be since it's determined by the number of hits you get on the spell.

[Qemuel]

In other words, if you have a natural 6, augmented to 9 attribute, the force required is 9, not it's natural 6.

[FastJack]

In other words, if you have a natural 6, augmented to 9 attribute, the force required is 9, not it's natural 6.

Correct.