[Novocrane]

It is possible to make a troll shapeshifter at Priority C.

[Cafroe]

Here's a question (one that may have been asked and answered already - 90-odd pages is a lot to trawl through). Under the 'Immunity' Critter Power, Critters are said to have an effective Hardened Armor rating equal to twice their Essence.

1) Does this mean that all spirits, regardless of force, have Hardened Armor r.12? I.E. Damage values <13 do not do damage, and for those over 12, the spirit gets 6 auto successes, plus getting body+6 dice to resist (more, if the spirit is Inhabiting a body wearing armor)?

2) If the effective Hardened Armor comes from the Immunity power, does the Critter actually have Hardened Armor, and is it subject to AP? AP does not necessarily function against Immunity - in the above example, would an APDS FN HAR need to get at least 13P damage and applying the AP to the (Body+6+OtherArmor) test, or would it need to get 7P, plus the critter only getting 3 automatic hits on the resistance test, AND applying AP to (Body+6+OtherArmor)?

[Reaver]

Yes, spirits have immunity to mormal weapons. Meaning VS any non magical attack, they have (force)×2 hardened armor.

Yes, AP is used to reduce that value.

[Cafroe]

Except that they explicitly don't use force as a metric for Immunity - they use essence (p398, 5e Core). I'm asking for confirmation on this - everyone keeps saying Force, when the book says essence.

I'm aware how Hardened Armor works, but I'm not convinced that AP applies to it through Immunity, seeing as Immunity means that they have that Hardened Armor 'effectively', but not actually. Given that Hardened Armor applies AP in very particular ways, I'm much more willing to believe that the 'effectively' in this case does allow the AP to apply, upon re-reading that entry.

The essence clarification still applies.

[Reaver]

I would suggest you do a search of the forums if you are interested. This has been brought up at least half a dozen times already so everything you are curious about can be found.

[Cafroe]

Thank you for not answering my question in the most direct manner possible - a reminder that for spirits, Essence = Force would have been satisfactory. Which, might I add, is not very intuitive to me, but I suppose that it stops problems precisely like the one I raised from becoming an issue.

[Reaver]

be happy I answered at all.

I am on a phone and do not have access to books and what not to quote from for you from.


On the reverse side, YOU could simply have done a search to start with and read the info.


Stop being an entitled brat and take some personal responsibility, look it up yourself if THAT is going to be your attitude.

[JackVII]

For f(*&^'s sake, can people at least try to be cordial? The internet wasn't created yesterday, so we should all be familiar with not reading more into posts than what's actually written in them (well, at least until you get to know a poster). With that said...

@Cafroe: Here's a trick. If you want to find something quickly in any long thread (like the Rules Clarification & FAQ thread), click the Print button on the far right hand side at the top of a post. It won't print, but will open a new webpage that has every thread on it. From there (if you're on a Windows PC), push CTRL + F and enter your search term.

ETA: The game stat blocks on Spirits on pg. 303 & 304 list Essence = Force.

[Cafroe]

I do apologise for my behaviour -  I had tried several different google searches (often leading me to threads on these forums), but nothing that addressed what I saw as a problem directly. This, of course, was because I had misremembered some spirit stats, which led me to feeling a touch defensive. Mea culpa.

Thank you for the tip on the search function, it should definitely help in the future.

[DARKBLADEZD73]

Hey Chummers,
                             
This post is concerning Run Faster and the rules on Life Modules/Qualities and Surge.

Not sure if any of what I am about to say is going to help ,but here it goes. As far as I know from talking with several GM's and scouring the forums on
these topics I have come to this conclusion.

  The Core Rules Stand for ALL character creation alternatives unless otherwise stated. Specifically, regarding Attribute Min/Max, Starting Quality
Limits (25 Karma Total), and any conflicts that might arise regarding Skills.

  Each option specifies what changes regarding that creation path. Like having Active Skills at 7 on pg. 66 or what to do when you exceed your
Karma limit with Qualities on pg. 84.
 
  Note: That the Core is clear on pg. 71
 "Additionally, at creation characters can only possess at most 25 Karma Worth of Positive Qualities and 25 Karma Worth of Negative Qualities."

So, as the alternative character creation methods are still part of the character creation system, The RAW Stands. This is my understanding.
 
  Also, Surge at any level is NOT A QUALITY!

 It is a separate character option that can be purchased with extra Karma from the alternative character creation options. Whether you can buy Surge

3 using the priority chart is not clear to me as it would put you over the 25 Karma Limit.
 
  Which is strange that there are certain loopholes around that where character's end up with 25P/26N CC Qualities and 31P/30N Metagenic Qualities.
 
  So, much for limits huh? Kinda blows my whole The Core Rules Stand out of the water don't you think? Ah lovely contradictions! Gotta Love it in the Shadows!
 
  Welcome to Shadowrun Chummers. I have been here since Day one back in the day with FASA and looking forward to many more conflicting rules

in the future. If GOD wills it.

Note: Also, my post was reported to the mod for being to hard to follow. My apologies. I am new to the forums.
Will work on making my post easier to follow.

[UnLimiTeD]

Heh. I'd like to ask about the above as well.

In regular Priority Chargen, there's a limit of 25 Karma on both positive and negative qualities.
In play, positives cost double, and you can't buy negatives.
And Point buy says you use the rules for character advancement. So, how to buy qualities?

• Same as Priority?
• You can only buy positives?
• You can buy both positives and negatives at double the price?

The latter is how a group I'm in does it atm, and while it's not upon me to worry about that, I find it.... odd, to say the least.

Edit: The gernam version clarifies:
Qualities are bought like in every other system.
I am left somewhat unsurprised.

[gradivus]

Heh. I'd like to ask about the above as well.

In regular Priority Chargen, there's a limit of 25 Karma on both positive and negative qualities.
In play, positives cost double, and you can't buy negatives.
And Point buy says you use the rules for character advancement. So, how to buy qualities?

• Same as Priority?
• You can only buy positives?
• You can buy both positives and negatives at double the price?

It's still chargen...core says positive qualities cost double AFTER chargen.
The latter is how a group I'm in does it atm, and while it's not upon me to worry about that, I find it.... odd, to say the least.

[fseperent]

Way it's put in the books SURGE shouldn't count towards the quality limits, like HMHVV.
Sadly, Hero Lab currently has it put as a positive quality, so I can't build a "legal" SURGE 3 character.

[Sterling]

That's no surprise; Herolab can't apply the Infected Quality correctly either.

e.g. Add Ghoul to an in-play character and instead of applying a -1 to Logic and Charisma it changes all your stats to match the Ghoul from the Critters section in the CRB.  Somebody brought it up and the Herolab guys blamed CGL for not making it clear!

[fseperent]

I saw that post.
Thought it was Hero Lab applying the penalties twice.