[TheDelta]

Quick question that had me confused as I'm building my first SR5 mage: What's the practical difference between Foreboding (from Street Grimoire) and Mass Confusion (from Core)? Foreboding has 2 less drain so looks much better while the effect seems to be identical. The one difference I found was that Foreboding specificially said it works on friends and foes alike, but I got the impression all area spells do that anyway, or am I mistaken? Am I able to cherry pick my targets from the area of effect with Mass Confusion? The one short paragraph on Area Spells isn't absolutely clear on that, just saying that all targets in the area are "valid" targets, which leaves some room for interpretation.

[dfmaia]

Thank you Namikaze and Michael.

As you can see, the rules are not very clear on how to handle agents so it is definetly worth going to the official FAQ.

The rules do say that marks cannot be shared among personas but they open an exception for the ICs. That let me wondering if agents would behave the same. Without this exception we are lead to believe that agents would have their own marks and OS scores.
In my opinion sharing marks makes the agent stronger because it can do assisted teamwork with the decker very easily, which maybe is the true purpose of agents. In this scenario the agent must necessarily run on the same grid/host as the decker otherwise they would need to build their own OS.

By the way, the errata on IC+Hosts+marks is still not very clear. Does it work both ways?
A mark put on the decker by one IC makes all ICs psychohappy. If the decker puts a mark on the host does it mark the ICs too?
I ask this because I intuitively think that agents/deckers would follow the same logic.

Thank you again!

[Michael Chandra]

"The IC in a host and the host itself share marks, so if one IC program marks, they all do, and so does the host itself. Similarly, the IC and host instantly share spotting information, so if the host spots you, so does all its IC. Which usually turns out not well for you."

No support of it going the other way. So IC+Host are an exception to the 'no sharing Marks' rule, whereas Agents are not. IC programs are still their own personas, so you will not mark all when you mark one. If they intended that, they would have left that line in after the errata.

As such, I still see no support for Agents sharing Marks with their Deckers. Teamwork tests may be possible depending on the GM though, not sure what is the official intent there.

[dfmaia]

Ok, in summary, no mark sharing and a separate OS score for agents because they are separate personas.

Last question on this topic. If I understood correctly, when a decker logs into a host the agent persona does not get access and so it is left behind on the local grid which means that agents can exist in a different grid than the decker. Is that correct, or the agent would just automatically hop into the host when the decker does?

[Namikaze]

"The IC in a host and the host itself share marks, so if one IC program marks, they all do, and so does the host itself. Similarly, the IC and host instantly share spotting information, so if the host spots you, so does all its IC. Which usually turns out not well for you."

No support of it going the other way. So IC+Host are an exception to the 'no sharing Marks' rule, whereas Agents are not. IC programs are still their own personas, so you will not mark all when you mark one. If they intended that, they would have left that line in after the errata.

As such, I still see no support for Agents sharing Marks with their Deckers. Teamwork tests may be possible depending on the GM though, not sure what is the official intent there.

Using IC as the comparison makes sense to me.  I stand corrected.

when a decker logs into a host the agent persona does not get access and so it is left behind on the local grid which means that agents can exist in a different grid than the decker. Is that correct, or the agent would just automatically hop into the host when the decker does?

If the persona of an agent is separate enough to generate it's own marks and OS score, then it should be able to run on a separate grid.

[Lucean]

Quick question that had me confused as I'm building my first SR5 mage: What's the practical difference between Foreboding (from Street Grimoire) and Mass Confusion (from Core)? Foreboding has 2 less drain so looks much better while the effect seems to be identical. The one difference I found was that Foreboding specificially said it works on friends and foes alike, but I got the impression all area spells do that anyway, or am I mistaken? Am I able to cherry pick my targets from the area of effect with Mass Confusion? The one short paragraph on Area Spells isn't absolutely clear on that, just saying that all targets in the area are "valid" targets, which leaves some room for interpretation.

Welcome to the forums.
Foreboding seems to designate a specific area in which all targets suffer the consequences while with Mass Confusion you pick a point in space or a target as the center and can then affect anyone you want who is inside the area depending on the force.

The general method for area manaspells is the latter. You pick a destination and choose the targets that you have to be able to perceive. Foreboding seems to be an exception to the rule.

[JackVII]

One More for the FAQ:

For effects that give a duration of 1 Combat Turn that are inflicted some time during a CT (rather than at the end of the CT), when do they end?

For example: a Bear Shaman fails a Composure Check, only scoring 2 Hits, and goes berserk for one Combat Turn. Let's say the check was failed during CT2. The berserk part happens immediately, assuming nothing happens to extend it, when does the effect end?

[shreck]

a few questions :
if i play a streetsam and have my wireless gear slaved to my commlink on the public grid wat happens to my gear ?
wat happens to for instance my smartlink ?
do i still get the wireless bonus of +1/+2 to my dicepool .
can i still use my wired reflexes +  reaction enhancers together ?

just asking becous it looks like a very cheap way to get a extra -2 to the dicepool of the hacker who is trying to brick your gear.

wat happens if one of my players decides to run around whith like 10-15 ( cost 200 for a external ) smartgun systems .
(i am sure he will come up whith a way to carry them and activate/deactivate them  )
all turnd on but only 1 of them on his gun wen i combat.
is it for the npc hacker possible to find the correct one or is it just pick one and hope for the best.

[Michael Chandra]

It is indeed a nice cheap way to get a -2 in defense. The functionality isn't harmed, only matrix actions are.

If your runner walks around with a dozen wireless guns in his bag, he indeed makes it impossible for an enemy IN combat to figure out which is which. But if they start hacking before a fight starts, they can definitely find it. And if your runner does that in the streets, the cops will arrest him.

[shreck]

It is indeed a nice cheap way to get a -2 in defense. The functionality isn't harmed, only matrix actions are.

If your runner walks around with a dozen wireless guns in his bag, he indeed makes it impossible for an enemy IN combat to figure out which is which. But if they start hacking before a fight starts, they can definitely find it. And if your runner does that in the streets, the cops will arrest him.

ok thanks .
and he woud not have the guns on him ( just the system itself ).
from wat i understand he woud rigg something up to house them and just activate wireless whith the push of a button .
i dont think a wireless gun even is always online.
i am seeing it more like a red dot laser that you activate wen you pull your gun ( by presure sensors on the grip or by flicking a button on it ).

[Michael Chandra]

((Wouldn't work. The matrix icon is very restrictive, if the smartgun isn't in an actual gun it wouldn't be shown as a gun in the matrix.))

((And yes, you can turn off the wireless on items, but then you have to spend actions to turn it on.))

[shreck]

its a external smartlink.(top mounth or underbarrel ).
thy shoud show up on the grid wen you activate them .
even if thy have to be attacht to a gun , how hard coud it be to build something that can fool the sensors on it.

i know i can get the same effect by just grabbing a bunch of rfid tags and using wrapper + change icon.
but if you use the real devices the hacker will have spend a lot of time on matrix perception tests trying to find out if thyr fake.

[Michael Chandra]

((How are you going to Wrap the RFID tags? Anyway, if you insist on arguing yourself as a GM into a corner, you may want to start a topic on it since this is not a FAQ question but a rules debate.))

[shreck]

ok ill just tell him it cant be done then .

[Darzil]

A couple of questions:

The tables on Noise on SR pg 231 shows Spam Zone or Static Zone giving Rating Noise. Was that just to save a line on the table or do they actually not stack? It would make some sense for some items (can't really have high grid traffic a long way from the grid), but you could have heavy rain and high grid traffic ? I guess they probably stack, but you'd be unlikely to get both.

What is the practical difference between Tool Kits, Shops and Facilities, for using, say, Hardware skill ?

edit, added:

If you have an agent running on a deck, it can take it's own Matrix Actions. However, if it is attacked, does the Agent defend, or as it's the deck being attacked, does the character defend ?

An observation:

I saw a comment earlier in this thread that the Noise Reduction bonus from Datajacks stacks if you have multiple. I think I'll recommend our GM ignores that. It sounds rather broken from a gameplay perspective, and hard to justify. Having a good route to the Grid help makes sense to reduce Noise. Having multiple good routes should have at the least diminishing returns I would hope, if any effect at all.