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[SR5] Rules Clarifications and FAQ

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voydangel

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« Reply #1215 on: <07-31-14/1817:25> »
So, even in the example, the characters both split their movement over multiple passes, further validating my point.
And it fails to specify whether or not 'Wombat' could move his full 20 meters in his first pass if he wanted, also further validating the need for clarification and/or a more thorough example.

You've voiced your opinion, I've voiced mine, we both understand each others point of view, and yet we disagree. Which is kind of the whole point of this thread right?

You could be right, but you could also be wrong, which is why I would like a clarification. The fact that you are sure that "you are right" and "I am wrong" doesn't invalidate my question/request.
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ZeConster

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« Reply #1216 on: <07-31-14/1839:35> »
So, even in the example, the characters both split their movement over multiple passes, further validating my point.
And it fails to specify whether or not 'Wombat' could move his full 20 meters in his first pass if he wanted, also further validating the need for clarification and/or a more thorough example.
Actually, the example has someone with 2 IPs who is totally allowed to move more than 10m (their Running Rate of 20m divided by 2) in their first IP without having to Sprint - this contradicts your point, it doesn't validate it.

ve4grm

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« Reply #1217 on: <07-31-14/1841:52> »
So, even in the example, the characters both split their movement over multiple passes, further validating my point.
And it fails to specify whether or not 'Wombat' could move his full 20 meters in his first pass if he wanted, also further validating the need for clarification and/or a more thorough example.

You've voiced your opinion, I've voiced mine, we both understand each others point of view, and yet we disagree. Which is kind of the whole point of this thread right?

You could be right, but you could also be wrong, which is why I would like a clarification. The fact that you are sure that "you are right" and "I am wrong" doesn't invalidate my question/request.

Unfortunately, Namikaze is correct in this.

In the example, you are correct to say that neither character moves their full movement speed in one initiative pass. However, both of them move (or are said to be able to move) over half of their total run rate in a single pass (causing them to be running during the first initiative pass). If they had had to divide their movement equally between initiative passes, this would be impossible.

For example: Caster, the dwarf, has a walk speed of 6, and run speed of 12. He has (at least) two initiative passes (implied in the example).

Since his max speed without sprinting is 12, that would mean he couldn't move more than 6 during each initiative pass (at least without sprinting). The example allows him to move 8 with no checks during a single initiative pass, and only mentions making a sprint roll is the 12 is exceeded for the entire combat turn.

This means one of two things. Either:
1) Your movement is per combat turn, and you are not required to divide it, or
2) You are required to divide it, but not equally.

If it's number 2, they would have to explain that somewhere, which they do not. There is no indication how to divide your movement, except that it obviously doesn't have to be equal between initiative passes because you can exceed half during a given pass. You could rule that you have to save at least 1m for each pass, I guess, but that would still end up with situations where you "teleport" 21m on IP#1, then move 1m for each of your next three IPs.

Add to this the fact that every reference in the example is to movement distance per combat turn:
Quote
"he has 12 meters of movement left for the Combat Turn"
and it's pretty clear that the correct answer is #1 above: Movement is per combat turn, spend it however you like. This may indeed leave you "stuck" unless you make a Running check.

So yeah, I'm sorry, voydangel, but Namikaze is correct here.
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Namikaze

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« Reply #1218 on: <07-31-14/1846:24> »
Unfortunately, Namikaze is correct in this.
*snip*
So yeah, I'm sorry, voydangel, but Namikaze is correct here.

I've never been so sad to be so right.   :'(
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ve4grm

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« Reply #1219 on: <07-31-14/1849:46> »
Unfortunately, Namikaze is correct in this.
*snip*
So yeah, I'm sorry, voydangel, but Namikaze is correct here.

I've never been so sad to be so right.   :'(

Hey, don't mind me. I'm Canadian. I can't disappoint someone without apologizing. :)

Also, to voydangel, it should be noted that Namikaze is part of the Catalyst Demo Team (which I hadn't noticed earlier). They're probably the most official answers you're going to get here, most of the time.
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ZeConster

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« Reply #1220 on: <07-31-14/1936:22> »
Also, to voydangel, it should be noted that Namikaze is part of the Catalyst Demo Team (which I hadn't noticed earlier). They're probably the most official answers you're going to get here, most of the time.
Actually, Demo Team is just a shiny badge for people who GM 'official' Shadowrun games - it doesn't make them part of Catalyst, or the development process. You're thinking of freelancers.
« Last Edit: <07-31-14/1943:56> by ZeConster »

voydangel

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« Reply #1221 on: <07-31-14/2056:11> »
I'm fully aware of Nami's status and what it means, I have a number of RL friends who are in that club, and I would be too if I had more extra time and money to devote to it. He and I have had many good conversations in the past about rules and getting clarifications & what not. I have no ill will towards him as a general rule, I was merely feeling a little affronted at the confrontational tone of his posts regarding this matter.

That is a very good point about the dwarf with a run rate of 12 moving 8 meters in a round, and normally that would be all the proof I need, except that it doesn't explicitly state anywhere in the example that he has 2 initiative passes. It states the at wombat has two, but doesn't give us an initiative score for the dwarf. And, I'm sorry to say, implication does not equal RAW.

Don't get me wrong - at this point I'm more or less fully convinced that Nami is correct as well. I'm not trying to get an errata to change this to being divided, and I'm not arguing that I'm correct... I simply want this clarified to make sure that this interpretation is indeed the correct one due to the lack of specificity in the RAW and the example given.
« Last Edit: <07-31-14/2058:12> by voydangel »
My tips for new GM's
Unless it is coming from an official source, RAI = "Rules As Imagined."
SR1+SR2+SR3++SR4++SR5+++h+b+++B+D382UBIE-RN---DSF-W+m+(o++)gm+MP

ve4grm

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« Reply #1222 on: <07-31-14/2218:59> »
That is a very good point about the dwarf with a run rate of 12 moving 8 meters in a round, and normally that would be all the proof I need, except that it doesn't explicitly state anywhere in the example that he has 2 initiative passes. It states the at wombat has two, but doesn't give us an initiative score for the dwarf. And, I'm sorry to say, implication does not equal RAW.

Fine. Then look at Wombat, who is said to be able to move 11 if the cover had been further away, and explicitly has two IPs.

As far as I'm concerned, the book is pretty explicit about this issue.

Also, to voydangel, it should be noted that Namikaze is part of the Catalyst Demo Team (which I hadn't noticed earlier). They're probably the most official answers you're going to get here, most of the time.
Actually, Demo Team is just a shiny badge for people who GM 'official' Shadowrun games - it doesn't make them part of Catalyst, or the development process. You're thinking of freelancers.

I know, and I know freelancers come around sometimes as well. All I meant was that Demo Team are a good resource for how something would be run in an "official" game, making them the most frequent source of "official-ish" feedback we get around here.
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Reaver

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« Reply #1223 on: <08-01-14/0049:40> »
I think the last OFFICIAL, official reply was over 6 months ago...

Rule of 3 is a good rule of thumb....

Get 3 good replies to a issue: chances are its pretty close to the way things work... at least mission wise.

And if you are not running missions, then do what you feel is best for your group. After all, its just your group. No harm done....As long as the rule is applied across the board...
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

aaron_1706

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« Reply #1224 on: <08-09-14/0649:27> »
Questions about channeling.

Page 148 SG:

  Treat channeling the same as if the spirit has the Possession power (p. 197), with a few exceptions:

      • The magician can use her own skills and has motor
      control over her body.

      • She may relinquish control of her body to the
      spirit, but at the cost of a service.



How does this effect using the skills of the spirit?  Is it 1 service to be able to relinquish control any time you want so that spirit will handle a task?  Is it 1 service to relinquish control for a single use of a skill?



      • The magician can use the powers of the spirit,
      but at the cost of a service.

1 Service for unlimited use of the spirit's powers?  Or 1 service for 1 use?


      • Because two minds inhabit this same body,
      Mana spells or powers are resisted by the lowest
      Mental attribute of the two. Damage from
      Mana spells or powers is applied to both (no
      free rides).


Do you use the magician's or the spirit's stats for resisting drain?  In other words, does drain count as resisting a mana spell or is it its own thing?

Physical attributes are increased by half the spirit’s Force Page 197 SG

There is not a mention of this being a stat augmentation or the augmentation limit applying.  Are these physical attribute increases considered augmenting, and therefore limited to the +4 limit, or not?

the spirit’s Mental and Special attributes are used, Page 197 SG


This also seems to indicate that augmentation is not occurring, but rather new stats are being generated, and also lacks a mention of the augmentation limit.  Are these stat increases subject to the +4 limit?

And lastly, does the Concealment critter power effect perception tests to notice magic?


Thanks for reading.
     

Sternenwind

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« Reply #1225 on: <08-11-14/1617:48> »
Character A has an initiative score of X, the reaction B cost Y initiative.
If 0 < X < Y , can A use reaction B?
If X < 1 and X < Y , can A use reaction B?

Lucean

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« Reply #1226 on: <08-12-14/0230:04> »
You can only use Full Defense, if you have at least 10 initiative left. For Dodge/Block/Parry you need 5 initiative.

p. 167 CRB:
When a character uses an Interrupt Action, such as Full Defense, he takes an action out of turn, but only if he has enough Initiative Score left in the Combat Turn to pay the price for the action.

Lucean

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« Reply #1227 on: <08-12-14/0249:25> »
Questions about channeling.

Page 148 SG:

  Treat channeling the same as if the spirit has the Possession power (p. 197), with a few exceptions:
      • The magician can use her own skills and has motor
      control over her body.
      • She may relinquish control of her body to the
      spirit, but at the cost of a service.


How does this effect using the skills of the spirit?  Is it 1 service to be able to relinquish control any time you want so that spirit will handle a task?  Is it 1 service to relinquish control for a single use of a skill?
Each use of the spirit's skills would be one service per task. Which would fall under "relinquish control".

Quote

      • The magician can use the powers of the spirit,
      but at the cost of a service.

1 Service for unlimited use of the spirit's powers?  Or 1 service for 1 use?
What would you expect to be reasonable? ;)
It's similar to normal spirit rules, so 1 service per use.

Quote

      • Because two minds inhabit this same body,
      Mana spells or powers are resisted by the lowest
      Mental attribute of the two. Damage from
      Mana spells or powers is applied to both (no
      free rides).

Do you use the magician's or the spirit's stats for resisting drain?  In other words, does drain count as resisting a mana spell or is it its own thing?
Drain is not included, so each creature uses its own attributes for resisting drain (Spirit of Man casts -> spirit's attributes; magician casts -> magician's attributes)

Quote
Physical attributes are increased by half the spirit’s Force Page 197 SG

There is not a mention of this being a stat augmentation or the augmentation limit applying.  Are these physical attribute increases considered augmenting, and therefore limited to the +4 limit, or not?

the spirit’s Mental and Special attributes are used, Page 197 SG


This also seems to indicate that augmentation is not occurring, but rather new stats are being generated, and also lacks a mention of the augmentation limit.  Are these stat increases subject to the +4 limit?

No limit mentioned -> no limit applied. The term "augmentation" is used for 'ware. Spells and magical powers mention limits when applicable.

Quote
And lastly, does the Concealment critter power effect perception tests to notice magic?
Indirectly, as it makes you harder to be detected. They will see the Fireball, but might not know who threw it.
« Last Edit: <08-12-14/0251:12> by Lucean »

aaron_1706

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« Reply #1228 on: <08-13-14/0223:32> »
Hey Lucean, thanks for the Reply.  The only thing I guess I would disagree with is the notion that different drain rules apply depending on who is casting the spell.  The rules clearly stats that the spirit's mental stats are used, with the only exception being that

      • Because two minds inhabit this same body,
      Mana spells or powers are resisted by the lowest
      Mental attribute of the two. Damage from
      Mana spells or powers is applied to both (no
      free rides).


If that exception above does not apply to drain, then the rule should be "the spirit’s Mental and Special attributes are used" Page 197 SG, in my opinion.


Cheers.

Lucean

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« Reply #1229 on: <08-13-14/0255:15> »
With possession you have the spirit pushing the original owner of the body into the backseat, tying it up and having it watch.
A channeling mage can be active, he can use his skills, his abilities, his knowledge.
I can understand your argument from a RAW perspective, but I'd suggest using the attributes of the acting entity as that should IMHO be RAI.