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[SR5] Rules Clarifications and FAQ

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Kincaid

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« Reply #1140 on: <06-26-14/0844:59> »
The only time Str comes into the equation is when you're dealing with armor accessories (basically, things with a +X value).  So anyone can wear a Sleeping Tiger suit (armor rating 13), but if you're adding helmets, forearm guards, and a shield, you're going to need to check your Strength value vs. the total added value.  There is a small degree of disagreement (that is, only one guy I can think of) who thinks that the Custom Stack rules in Run & Gun do not use the armor accessory/Strength rules, but it seems like most people do.
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Elektrycerze3

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« Reply #1141 on: <06-26-14/0852:40> »
There is a small degree of disagreement (that is, only one guy I can think of) who thinks that the Custom Stack rules in Run & Gun do not use the armor accessory/Strength rules.

There are at least two of us =P
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Kincaid

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« Reply #1142 on: <06-26-14/0854:23> »
There is a small degree of disagreement (that is, only one guy I can think of) who thinks that the Custom Stack rules in Run & Gun do not use the armor accessory/Strength rules.

There are at least two of us =P

Haha!  I stand corrected  :D
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ZeConster

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« Reply #1143 on: <06-26-14/0953:22> »
I asked about it in the new FAQ topic, so we should get an answer in 2016.

vizx

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« Reply #1144 on: <06-26-14/1215:37> »
Would hacking a maglock through Control Device require one mark or two? I don't think it's ever mentioned explicitly, but since Use Simple Device is a simple action I'd assume it would require two marks. Can anyone confirm?

voydangel

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« Reply #1145 on: <06-26-14/1411:31> »
Working from the RAW, it states that skills now go up to 12 (13 with aptitude), but have a cap of 6 at character creation.
Quote from: SR5 pg 88
In character generation, the highest characters can raise a skill is 6 (7 if they purchase the Aptitude quality). After character generation, the highest rating a skill can hit is 12 (13 with the Aptitude quality).
Quote from: SR5 pg 129
The skill Rating is a numerical value ranging from 1, representing the most rudimentary skill, to 12 (or 13 with the Aptitude quality) representing the height of sentient achievement.

It also states somewhere that an augmented skill can only be 1.5x the base skill. So if you have a 6 in firearms, then the highest you can get your firearms is a 9 with augments.
(Or am i just remembering this from SR4 and getting my rules crossed? that's been happening a lot lately)
Now, for adepts that's easy: spend points on "improved ability". It happens to explicitly state the 1.5x rule in the description for this adept power as well.
But, for non-awakened, is there any way to get an augmented skill? Or are they all stuck at 12/13 while adepts get a 50% bonus over them? (and potentially almost a 100% bonus over them: see next line/question)
Also, does the +2 to unarmed from having a shark mentor count as augmentation? Or could a shark adept have an unarmed "base skill" of 22 (13 base (aptitude), +7 imp. ability (RAW states to round up), +2 shark)?

I am assuming specialization doesn't enter into this discussion since it would be added to the augmented skill after the fact in each of these scenarios, in a similar manner to smartlink.
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DigitalZombie

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« Reply #1146 on: <06-26-14/1428:36> »
But, for non-awakened, is there any way to get an augmented skill? Or are they all stuck at 12/13 while adepts get a 50% bonus over them? (and potentially almost a 100% bonus over them: see next line/question)
Also, does the +2 to unarmed from having a shark mentor count as augmentation? Or could a shark adept have an unarmed "base skill" of 22 (13 base (aptitude), +7 imp. ability (RAW states to round up), +2 shark)?

I am assuming specialization doesn't enter into this discussion since it would be added to the augmented skill after the fact in each of these scenarios, in a similar manner to smartlink.

Reflex recorder, adds a bonus die, to a skill. I presume its an augmentation bonus. Alas, it doesnt stack with itself. So your shark adept could get a "base skill" of 23. I havent read anything about the mentor spirit bonus should be an augmentation bonus, I think its just an unnamed bonus.

Koshnek

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« Reply #1147 on: <06-28-14/1829:46> »
Edit: Meh. I overlooked the Touch-Only Attack update in Run & Gun. Sorry guys x.x. I assume the following is the correct order to attempt Neijia:

1) Perform a touch-only attack  for a complex action with a +2 dice pool modifier (you may use any melee combat skill you are equipped to use). It will do no damage (unless the weapon has a touch/contact vector), but you will be in contact on a success or tie. If you maintain contact you will be able to perform neijia during your next action phase. However, being in touch imposes a -2 dice pool penalty upon your character for the opposing character to clinch or grapple you.

2) Wait for your turn to come back. If you have 5 or more initiative, you may attempt to intercept the spirit if it attempts to move away from you. If you have 4 or less initiative, you watch as he backs up and smites you, laughing the whole way as you've just wasted an entire turn. Don't perform a touch attack if you can't follow through.

3) You may now attempt neijia for a complex action.

OK, I'm having the devil with this. Can I use the martial arts technique Neijia with my sword (or any other weapon)?  I think it works, it makes sense to me that it would work, and I don't see why the rules wouldn't allow it to work. However, I haven't came up with a definitive answer for myself.

Here is the full text, Ill requote the relevant bits as I go.

Quote from: p. 142 R&G Neijia (Complex Action)
Neijia means internal strength. It’s as close as a mundane can get to magical weaponry in fighting spirits. The technique focuses the spiritual and mental strength of the character in order to inflict damage to a Materialized spirit as an Attack of Will. It allows the character to perform a physical version of Astral Combat (p. 315, SR5) against Materialized spirits. The style of the attack is based on Tai Chi’s soft and fluid motion and mental discipline. The character must first make a successful Touch Attack against the spirit. This can include a Grapple or Clinch, but it also counts if the character has been Engulfed. Using only Willpower vs. Willpower as an attack, the character can impose Charisma + net hits in Stun Damage that the spirit must resist. This damage is not physical, so it cannot be used to take down wards or magical barriers. The character feels drained after making this attack, resisting Stun Damage equal to hits (not net hits) from the spirit defending against the attack. If they are a mage they resist Drain per their tradition; everyone else uses Willpower + Charisma.
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Quote from: p. 142 R&G
The character must first make a successful Touch Attack against the spirit. This can include a Grapple or Clinch, but it also counts if the character has been Engulfed. Using only Willpower vs. Willpower as an attack, the character can impose Charisma + net hits in Stun Damage that the spirit must resist.

Ok so, it says that you must first make a successful Touch Attack. Here are the rules for a Touch Only Attack.

Quote from: p. 187 SR5
If the intention of an attack is to simply make contact, whether to discharge a spell, plant a RFID tag, or just playing tag, than the attacker gains a +2 dice pool bonus. Additionally, if all that is needed is contact, the attacker and not the defender succeeds on a tie.

The description doesn't specify what kind of attack has to be made, and neither does it specify what type of dice pool bonus. I assume that is because of stun batons which would benefit greatly from this rule. If that is the case then wouldn't it work for other melee weapons too?

Note: Weapons would not work for touch spells. The emphasis is mine.

Quote from: p. 282 SR5
Some spells require you to Touch (T) the target-if the target is unwilling, you'll need to make an unarmed attack against the target (see Accuracy, p. 168).

However, I don't believe that precludes neijia working with weapons because there are also these bits. One is mostly fluff, the other isn't.

Quote from: p. 142 R&G
Neijia means internal strength. It’s as close as a mundane can get to magical weaponry in fighting spirits.
Quote from: p. 142 R&G
[Neijia] allows the character to perform a physical version of Astral Combat (p. 315, SR5) against Materialized spirits.

Astral Combat can be used with weapon foci. Neijia is as close as a mundane can get to magical weaponry and allows them to perform a physical version of Astral Combat. Astral combat with a weapon is similar to Neijia. The formula for Astral Combat with a Focus is below.

Quote from: p. 315 SR5
Astral attacks with a weapon focus are an Opposed Astral Combat + Willpower [Accuracy] v Intuition + Logic Test. Base Damage Value [is by weapon (using Charisma instead of Strength)]; add 1 to the DV per net hit on an attack.

And here is the forumla for performing an attack with Neijia.

Quote from: p. 142 R&G
The character must first make a successful Touch Attack against the spirit. This can include a Grapple or Clinch, but it also counts if the character has been Engulfed. Using only Willpower vs. Willpower as an attack, the character can impose Charisma + net hits in Stun Damage that the spirit must resist.

So you make an touch only attack.
Unarmed + Agi + 2[Phys] vs Rea + Int. If you succeed or tie, you make a Willpower vs Willpower test. If you succeed, deal Cha + net hits stun damage. He rolls his resist, then you resist drain.

Quote from: p. 142. R&G
The character feels drained after making this attack, resisting Stun Damage equal to hits (not net hits) from the spirit defending against the attack. If they are a mage they resist Drain per their tradition; everyone else uses Willpower + Charisma.

Is this in any way different from making a touch only attack with lets say Blades?
Blades + Agi + 2[Accuracy] vs Rea + Int. If you succeed or tie, you make a Willpower vs Willpower test. If you succeed, deal Cha + net hits stun damage. He rolls his resist, then you resist drain.

Also regardless of the ruling, am I correct in my understanding of how to use neijia? As in, you roll to see if you can touch the spirit, and then you roll for damage if you succeed or tie.
« Last Edit: <06-28-14/2021:48> by Koshnek »
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Namikaze

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« Reply #1148 on: <06-28-14/2024:29> »
OK, I'm having the devil with this. Can I use the martial arts technique Neijia with my sword (or any other weapon)?  I think it works, it makes sense to me that it would work, and I don't see why the rules wouldn't allow it to work. However, I haven't came up with a definitive answer for myself.

If you were at my table, I'd say yes weapons can be used for the Neijia touch attack.  This is simply because Touch attacks can use weapons - as you pointed out the stun baton falls into that category.

Also regardless of the ruling, am I correct in my understanding of how to use neijia? As in, you roll to see if you can touch the spirit, and then you roll for damage if you succeed or tie.

The odds are slim to none that we'll have an official ruling on this in any timeframe that is pertinent to you.  So I'd suggest talking to your GM and finding out his/her take on this.  After all, the GM's ruling is the only one that matters.

The only time that's not true is when you're playing in Missions - Missions GMs have to follow the precise wording of the book in all cases possible.  Therefore, there are some Missions FAQs that seek to answer questions like these for Missions-related games.  Often, the rulings in the Missions FAQ are made canon later in errata and such.  As a result, if you're looking for an answer that is semi-official, you'd be best off posing your question in the Missions FAQ questions thread.
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Koshnek

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« Reply #1149 on: <06-28-14/2033:59> »
Thanks :p. I actually figured it out while you were making your post. I feel kinda retarded because its actually clearly stated in an expanded Touch-Only Attack update in R&G. I edit'd my post just before you made yours so people wouldn't have to read my huge wall of text. Thanks for the suggestion though!
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Starsomava

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« Reply #1150 on: <06-28-14/2042:40> »
Does the Orthoskin Bioware add to your encumbrance like regular armor?  or is it an exemption like dermal plating cyberware?

Medicineman

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« Reply #1151 on: <06-29-14/0125:01> »
Does the Orthoskin Bioware add to your encumbrance like regular armor?  or is it an exemption like dermal plating cyberware?
Cybered Armor, no matter which one (Orthoskin,Dermal Plating, Cyberarm/Leg,Bone Lacing, etc) is generally without any encumberance

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RHat

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« Reply #1152 on: <06-30-14/2101:53> »
Does the Orthoskin Bioware add to your encumbrance like regular armor?  or is it an exemption like dermal plating cyberware?

Side-Note for SR5 - there's no encumberance for regular armour.  Armour accessories, yes, but not for armour.
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Sternenwind

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« Reply #1153 on: <07-01-14/1515:09> »
Shadowrun Street Grimoire - S.137 - Greater Spirite Power

"As per the base type of the spirite"

7 little words, perfect to start a long and deep philosophical discussion about rules, man, spirits and magic. But for little me, who prefer clear and simple rules. Need some enlightenment, and asks -“What are the base spirit types?”


Namikaze

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« Reply #1154 on: <07-01-14/1648:28> »
The spirit types from the core rulebook are the "base spirit types".

Spirit of Man
Spirit of Earth
Spirit of Water
Spirit of Fire
Spirit of Air
Spirit of Beasts
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