[KarmaInferno]

Reading through the book, I think I will be identifying all the gear that only interacts with the user and not anyone or anything outside that user, and removing the Matrix connection requirements.

Some of the Matrix bonuses make sense. Some are utterly boneheaded stupid.

My Tripod should not be deploying faster just because I gave it Facebook access.




-k

[All4BigGuns]

Reading through the book, I think I will be identifying all the gear that only interacts with the user and not anyone or anything outside that user, and removing the Matrix connection requirements.

Some of the Matrix bonuses make sense. Some are utterly boneheaded stupid.

My Tripod should not be deploying faster just because I gave it Facebook access.




-k

Nor should any pair of implants you have suddenly (and magically) stop working properly because you turned their Facebook access off.

[Aaron]

I posted this over on Dumpshock in response to a similar comment. It seemed relevant  to this discussion.

Where in the book does it say that a cyberlimb or a smartgun can't be used except wirelessly? I think there's some confusion here about the difference between a wireless bonus and normal operation. A smartgun with wireless off still increases the Accuracy of the weapon it's on, and since cyberlimbs don't have a bonus, there's no real reason to have the wireless on when in a tactical situation, and they work fine without it.

[ ... ]

Additionally, I think there's also some confusion between time and attention. Take the chemical seal (or the bipod, or the smuggling compartment, etc.). Have you ever used a bread machine? They're awesome. You just put all the ingredients in and the machine handles the kneading, rising, whatever that second kneading step is called, and the baking. Then bam, you have bread. In the meantime, you've been reading, playing video games, or posting on Dumpshock. Your bread needed less attention than it would have had you not had the machine, even though it baked in approximately the same amount of time.

[Carz]

Your bread needed less attention than it would have had you not had the machine, even though it baked in approximately the same amount of time.

Which would make sense for anything whose operation *changes* each time it goes through its process.

So for sealing an EV suit, there is no change to the process - it doesn't need to 'think' about how or if it should seal, only that it got the order TO seal up, and all the seals need to activate.

Some Matrix (wireless) bonuses seem to make sense under the 'more processing helps' theory. Other bonuses fail that test and thus doesn’t make sense given that as an explanation.


---


Matrix/wireless bonuses, and the 'on all the time' effect it has breaks the game for me. I just can't see breaking into a facility with these 'aggregate processing bonuses' and NOT having the corp first think jam you, while leaving their guys alone. Maybe that can't be done in 5th, but it could in 4th - but in 4th you didn't lose a bunch of functionality when it happened, just communication...

[GiraffeShaman]

I just can't see breaking into a facility with these 'aggregate processing bonuses' and NOT having the corp first think jam you, while leaving their guys alone. Maybe that can't be done in 5th, but it could in 4th - but in 4th you didn't lose a bunch of functionality when it happened, just commusnication...

Maybe they do try that. But also maybe your decker defends you from that. Maybe it's a jamming war like riggers get into sometimes. And Faraday cages are just another security obstacle runners need to think more about going forward.

[Daedalus]

Reading through the book, I think I will be identifying all the gear that only interacts with the user and not anyone or anything outside that user, and removing the Matrix connection requirements.

Some of the Matrix bonuses make sense. Some are utterly boneheaded stupid.

My Tripod should not be deploying faster just because I gave it Facebook access.


-k

It would if you have to login first. Think of it as having the log in preselected.

[Aaron]

Which would make sense for anything whose operation *changes* each time it goes through its process.

So for sealing an EV suit, there is no change to the process - it doesn't need to 'think' about how or if it should seal, only that it got the order TO seal up, and all the seals need to activate.

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

But that doesn't really matter. It's just a game, and each table can approach it in any way they find fun.

[Crunch]

Isn't the sealing thing just the difference between a change mode free action and an activate simple device Simple Action?

[Carz]

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

And again, if that were what we were talking about, then the explanation might hold up. But we aren't talking about putting the suit ON in the first place, but rather turning on the seal and air supply. Something that somehow takes 'a bit longer' when not connected to the Matrix. If it were a complex operation, the base time without Matrix help would take longer than it does.

Would it help clarify things if I changed by example to the tripod deployment?

[Crunch]

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

And again, if that were what we were talking about, then the explanation might hold up. But we aren't talking about putting the suit ON in the first place, but rather turning on the seal and air supply. Something that somehow takes 'a bit longer' when not connected to the Matrix. If it were a complex operation, the base time without Matrix help would take longer than it does.

Would it help clarify things if I changed by example to the tripod deployment?

Manufacturers in the SR verse have stopped putting hard wire ports on their stuff. Therefore to use the DNI bonus of free action (thinking about turning it on) versus pressing the button (simple action) you need to have the wireless enabled. Do you have to play it that way at your table? No. But it's no more unrealistic than XBONE or EA. 

[Critias]

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

And again, if that were what we were talking about, then the explanation might hold up. But we aren't talking about putting the suit ON in the first place, but rather turning on the seal and air supply. Something that somehow takes 'a bit longer' when not connected to the Matrix. If it were a complex operation, the base time without Matrix help would take longer than it does.

Would it help clarify things if I changed by example to the tripod deployment?

You're talking about a mental command telling your gear to ___________ itself, versus doing __________ to it with your own two hands.  For about twenty years now we've had similar speed/convenience boosts in regards to a smartlink allowing you to, for instance, eject a mag and reload faster.  Did you have the same problems with that?  I mean, gravity and a proper mag-release lever would still eject a magazine quickly, were you questioning why that took 'a bit longer' than just doing so with a mental command to the smartlink?

Now, that's able to be done over your PAN, wirelessly, with all sorts of other gear (and giving all sorts of other small bonuses).

Or, alternately, you can give up those bonuses in exchange for hack-proof levels of security, by keeping all your wireless turned off. 

[All4BigGuns]

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

No he's talking about that you already have the suit on, but for some magical reason flipping the switch to seal it suddenly becomes a Complex Action because the suit isn't logged in to the interwebz.

[RHat]

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

No he's talking about that you already have the suit on, but for some magical reason flipping the switch to seal it suddenly becomes a Complex Action because the suit isn't logged in to the interwebz.

Whereas, if the wireless is on, you don't hit the manual control at all. 

[All4BigGuns]

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

No he's talking about that you already have the suit on, but for some magical reason flipping the switch to seal it suddenly becomes a Complex Action because the suit isn't logged in to the interwebz.

Whereas, if the wireless is on, you don't hit the manual control at all.

It would take about the same effort to activate that seal once the suit is already worn. It's patently ridiculous to make flipping a switch suddenly more effort just because some butt-hurt Hacker wants to do everything under the sun with just the few skills he uses for his hacking. Make those hackers actually have to buy more skills to do more things like everyone else has to do.

[Crunch]

I take it you've put on or assisted someone in putting on an environmental suit? Now imagine doing that with a not-necessarily-cooperating, probably moving subject. I wouldn't describe that as a process that doesn't change.

No he's talking about that you already have the suit on, but for some magical reason flipping the switch to seal it suddenly becomes a Complex Action because the suit isn't logged in to the interwebz.

Whereas, if the wireless is on, you don't hit the manual control at all.

It would take about the same effort to activate that seal once the suit is already worn. It's patently ridiculous to make flipping a switch suddenly more effort just because some butt-hurt Hacker wants to do everything under the sun with just the few skills he uses for his hacking. Make those hackers actually have to buy more skills to do more things like everyone else has to do.

I understand that you don't like the wireless bonuses All4BigGuns, but I think you're overstating the case.

A) With DNI attachment (available only through wireless in this years model) mentally send command to seal and receive real time update of seal status. Free action.

B) Without DNI, hit some number of switches to activate seal. Manually check seals for integrity and take corrective action if needed. Complex Action.

That doesn't seem either game breaking or outside of the realm of believability to me.