[Mirikon]

Well, a better way to say it would be that you don't go out of your way to kill cops or corpsec. No one expects you to be sticking to stun batons when they are using APDS rounds. If some go down in the middle of a firefight, that's one thing. If you go back and put two in each of the bodies to be sure, that's quite another. Same with stealth runs. If you knock out/disable/evade guards, rather than using the monofilament garrote every chance you get, then you are less likely to get moved to the top of the 'to-do' list.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Well, a better way to say it would be that you don't go out of your way to kill cops or corpsec. No one expects you to be sticking to stun batons when they are using APDS rounds. If some go down in the middle of a firefight, that's one thing. If you go back and put two in each of the bodies to be sure, that's quite another. Same with stealth runs. If you knock out/disable/evade guards, rather than using the monofilament garrote every chance you get, then you are less likely to get moved to the top of the 'to-do' list.

I disagree.  This, of course, depends on how the GM runs the world, but if there's any sort of justice, the actions you pursue influence the rep you build.  If you do go out of your way to use non-lethal tech -- I guess Stick-n-Shock is the ammo of choice, though I still prefer chemicals -- your reputation will be built in a way that leads people, including corporate sorts, will think of you in a certain way, and will lead to you being given runs requiring greater delicacy and a deft hand.  Any sort of goon can plug security guards full of bullets; it takes talent to get through an intrusion when security IS alerted without killing anybody.  Me, the reason I prefer chemical rounds is the fact that a) when you can earn enough, you can implant chem glands so you don't have to buy the damn stuff any more, b) it's so much easier to apply DMSO + Chemical via a capsule round, considering you really only have to call a shot to avoid a few points of chemical protection instead of a dozen to avoid armor, and c) with G-S you have a damn high likelihood of them collapsing in about two seconds (end of combat Turn), after which you can pop them with Laés or Leäl for the good ol' 'forget-me-lots'.

Obviously, c) is my option of choice.  Expensive, yes, but don't go dosing everyone in the place, huh?

[Mirikon]

Just because you use lethal rounds doesn't mean you aren't delicate. Precision is the key. If you knock out the guard that was in your way but didn't see you, you look good. If you use the sniper rifle to take out the guard in the tower with the machine gun so your group can get out with the package, you also look good. The trick is in using precisely the right tactics and weapons for the situation.

Of course, your actions are also dependent on your mission parameters. There are times when a Johnson wants someone to be made example of, and there are times when they pull out the stops, and say anything goes, so long as you get the package. There are also times when they want zero bodycount, or zero residual presence, and are willing to pay extra to make sure it happens. A professional might ask about it when defining the mission at the meet.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Of course, your actions are also dependent on your mission parameters. There are times when a Johnson wants someone to be made example of, and there are times when they pull out the stops, and say anything goes, so long as you get the package. There are also times when they want zero bodycount, or zero residual presence, and are willing to pay extra to make sure it happens. A professional might ask about it when defining the mission at the meet.

And which ones do you think pay more?

[Kat9]

As an aside, thanks for making this a great thread to read through. Good stuff!

[CanRay]

Just because you use lethal rounds doesn't mean you aren't delicate. Precision is the key. If you knock out the guard that was in your way but didn't see you, you look good. If you use the sniper rifle to take out the guard in the tower with the machine gun so your group can get out with the package, you also look good. The trick is in using precisely the right tactics and weapons for the situation.

*Shoots the guard in both kneecaps*  "He'll live."

[Mirikon]

Of course, your actions are also dependent on your mission parameters. There are times when a Johnson wants someone to be made example of, and there are times when they pull out the stops, and say anything goes, so long as you get the package. There are also times when they want zero bodycount, or zero residual presence, and are willing to pay extra to make sure it happens. A professional might ask about it when defining the mission at the meet.

And which ones do you think pay more?

Depends on the run, the target, and the client. The Yakuza or Aztechnology, for instance, may want the situation handled with extreme prejudice, while the Catholic church may wish for no fatalities. That does not, however, mean that jobs done for the Church will pay more than jobs done for Aztechnology.

There are no hard and fast rules to this kind of thing. The closest you get are "Watch your back. Shoot straight. Conserve Ammo. And never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon."

[Crash_00]

Don't forget, there are always frangible rounds for when Ex-exp is too loud.

Now I just wish there were subsonic frangible rounds available.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Depends on the run, the target, and the client. The Yakuza or Aztechnology, for instance, may want the situation handled with extreme prejudice, while the Catholic church may wish for no fatalities. That does not, however, mean that jobs done for the Church will pay more than jobs done for Aztechnology.

There are no hard and fast rules to this kind of thing. The closest you get are "Watch your back. Shoot straight. Conserve Ammo. And never, ever, cut a deal with a dragon."

While I'll concede that there are no hard-and-fast rules for such work, I'll point out that quiet is typically related to important, while it is rare (it happens, but it's still rare) for loud to have to be done by a highly-skilled professional.  Here's a to-the-point quote from "Street Legends", emphasis mine:

Trigger-happy runners are frequently dead runners. Steal from a corp, that’s business as usual, and something most corps usually just accept. Especially since they operate in the same way. But start killing a bunch of security guards or blow up a lab? Now you’re costing them money beyond what the loss of their stolen item, data, or employee would cost them. Death benefits, pensions, rebuilding, the collateral loss of additional research and prototypes. This all costs the corp a lot more money, and it’s the kind of thing that will get you red-flagged — added to a corp’s shit list and unemployable, at least by them. Still, it’s better than them hunting you down.
> Winterhawk

Please note that some corporations -- S-K and Aztechnology being the top examples -- will hunt you down, the latter immediately, the former eventually.  Being quiet and 'considerate' gets you noticed in a good way.  Going out of your way to leave them alive gets you noticed in a very good way.  And doing jobs with nobody even remembering you were there?  Now that is something they'll be knocking down your virtual door for.

[CanRay]

And you can explain Kane...  How? 

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

I try not to explain Kane; simply put, his continued existence makes absolutely no sense to me.

...

No, I should revise that, and I'll tell you how I thought, and then how I suppose I'll have to explain Kane if I become a freelancer.

Previously, I figured that if Kane actually was "#X on (Everyone's) Most Wanted List ... And Dropping!!", someone would have dropped one or three hundred thousand on making sure he didn't pollute the world any more.  As the saying goes, there's nobody who can't be assassinated; after the second or third country where he'd pissed everyone off -- and with that sort of heat coming down on him, imagine how much was coming down on his employers -- somebody or another would have taken a contract out on him, and he would have been killed, period.  Kane wouldn't've lived long enough to challenge the Gingerbread Man.  (Whom, I'll note, I really hope survived.)

Now?  Now the only way I can explain Kane's existence is that he did a huge amount of media image engineering and hacking, probably hiring (or being an experimental front-man for) the people who've become Horizon.  Think about it; according to what is and has been said, Kane is wanted by bloody well everybody.  You know that if this was actually true, there'd be a price -- multiple prices -- on his head.  The guy who puts a round through Kane's brain is going to collect hundreds of thousands of nuyen, even millions, because everyone on any Most Wanted list has got dollar and nuyen signs behind their name.  Bounty hunters would be hammering the pavement behind him, looking to take him in (or just down); freelancers would be shooting at him every hour of every day.

There's no way to explain this except for the fact that it's all fake.  "UCAS FBI's #3 Most Wanted ... And Dropping!!"  Until he hits #1, and stays there for a week or so until they correct the plant and re-tag him with a much lower 'this hoser screwed with our system, keep an eye out and kick him in the balls if you find him' tag.  Remember, he's done this everywhere.  There is no way he'd've survived unless it was all hacking and social engineering to boost his Public Awareness through the roof.  Sure, he's got a reason for it (to save the chica Aztlan had captured), but think about it -- he's gotten a racing team out of the deal.  There is no way in hell his reputation is actually earned; it's manufactured.

I'm sure he's screwed over a few people along the way, though.  In fact, I'm sure he's screwed over every 'runner team he's ever been with ...

[CanRay]

One possibility is that he's like a Pink Mohawk video game protagonist, like the one in the early GTA/Saints Row series.  The type of person that sees waves of goons and troopers as just a target rich environment, and he's got a belt-fed weapon.  "Happiness is a warm gun.  Bang-bang, shoot-shoot." 

Another possibility is that his reputation that he puts on ShadowLand/JackPoint is exaggerated, and that while he is a full-on Pink Mohawk character, it's not anywhere near as bad as what is shown to us in the books.

"Unreliable Narrator", they name is "Shadowrun".  (TVTropes link not put in to protect the innocent.).

That said, he's a high-end, high-impact level Shadowrunner/Pirate that knows at the very least the legal loopholes in extradition.

[Mirikon]

There's two other possible reasons.

1) Corps and governments don't like to get rid of tools that work for them. Sometimes, you need someone who can do something in the highest possible profile. The time Kane took over a radio station to block the comms at a nearby military base while his people hit it? While everyone's focused on him, what other jobs can be done? Kane is the perfect distraction.

2) Someone has to be number 1. Why not keep the devil you know, and pick off all the up-and-comers who try and emulate him? Since that kind of behavior does make you more likely to get noticed, having an 'example' like Kane for all the criminals out there might cause people to emulate him. If people think (mistakenly) that his tactics are the way to go, then more may try them, making criminals easier to catch.

[CanRay]

Which explains Pink Mohawks like "Heavy Weapon's Troll" who tries to hide a Panther Assault Cannon under an Elf he's carrying over his shoulder.  (That happened Friday, BTW.  I just blinked and had someone on the block hit a PANICBUTTON! and run the hell away.).

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

There's two other possible reasons.

1) Corps and governments don't like to get rid of tools that work for them. Sometimes, you need someone who can do something in the highest possible profile. The time Kane took over a radio station to block the comms at a nearby military base while his people hit it? While everyone's focused on him, what other jobs can be done? Kane is the perfect distraction.

2) Someone has to be number 1. Why not keep the devil you know, and pick off all the up-and-comers who try and emulate him? Since that kind of behavior does make you more likely to get noticed, having an 'example' like Kane for all the criminals out there might cause people to emulate him. If people think (mistakenly) that his tactics are the way to go, then more may try them, making criminals easier to catch.

Not meaning to offend, but -- both of these are true only if a) Kane actually displayed some kind of loyalty even during a run (from the text, he doesn't), and b) he was actually anywhere in the top anything.  The only thing Kane might be #1 at is screwing over his teammates and his employer.  His missions are disasters, he cuts and runs and leaves his teammates to get captured or killed, he swipes stuff he shouldn't.  Even if it didn't start out high profile, or was meant to be low profile, it would appear that he can't keep it that way.  Seriously, from what I've read of the fluff, the guy's a walking, talking, breathing jinx on every runner but himself, and any Johnson who hires him.  I'd sooner hire Ma'fan to safeguard the British Crown Jewels than hire Kane to take out my garbage.