NEWS

...but is it possible?

  • 13 Replies
  • 2614 Views

BreederofPuppets

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 36
« on: <11-20-12/0557:38> »
I'm not interested in game balance right now, just if this makes sense:

    Given that there is (Shadowrun) technology that can:
    • record, copy, and implant into another person fully active skills (with limits)
    • semi-autonomous and autonomous programs that can make series of complicated decisions (ranging from find nodes and hacking them to picking a route through a building)
    • smartguns that can tell you when you are empty, and eject the magazine
    • mentally controlled everything through a commlink
    • Cybernetic limbs, including a full-fledged weapon mount
    Do you think an extra set of cyberlimbs can be mounted on some one, and be near fully functional?

     Sure the human brain wasn't built for it (unless it was that odd sub-species) but the skillwires should be able to help there.  Yes, I understand that all the programs in the world won't help a computer wired wrong, but bear with me here.  Two people linked to datajacks and a fiber optic cord can literally share thoughts, so it makes sense that any other form of Direct Neural Interface (DNI) would allow that.  So a commlink with 'trodes would work.  Tie in some sort of senses to track the rest of the body (where the natural limbs are, the balance of the host body, etc), and the extra arm movements are either compensated for and/or kept out of the way.

    An agent (to two) installed in the limbs, commanded by a DNI to the user's brain and smartgun would allow the limbs to help swap magazines, help climb walls, and engage in hand-to-hand combat.  There are multiple targeting programs and sensors to allow independent targeting and even shield use. 

    So, without worrying about game rule balance, does this all make sense?  If it does work, what limitations would there be?  Could these arms be given an order and they just follow that until told other wise (via pre-programmed responses, or another instruction)?  For example, the arms could be ordered to shoot at those targets until the targets are dead.  The arms, linked to the hosts body and all the sensors listed there, fire the SMG until dry, ejects the magazine, and fishes the next magazine out where it knows the magazines are kept.  If some one enters close range combat, the sensors tell the arms this, and the arms respond by switching modes, grappling and punching on its own.  This wild movement may look like it would through the user off, but balance augmentations allows the arms to move so as not to upset the host, and, as the previously mentioned tech showed, could keep arms out of the way.

    What do yawl think?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #1 on: <11-20-12/0658:24> »
Functionally, yes.

Practically, only if you figure out the muscular/skeletal issues - which, if your corporation has had one of the four-armed Kali metavariants (or whatever they're called), they probably have, or at least have a strong hint or two.

Really, you're asking for implanting a drone.  Why not make it seperate all together, and just go with an anthrodrone?  If you need to keep it on a tether, well, you still can ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Unahim

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 789
« Reply #2 on: <11-20-12/0733:37> »
I'd allow it as cyberware, and follow all the rules for the Shiva arms metagenic quality.

Really, a drone of that size on your back would either have such a low body that its strength score isn't anything to speak of either or its every attack would imbalance you with its strength and weight (if they attack automatically). Either way, Shiva arms seem better.

Mithlas

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 919
« Reply #3 on: <11-20-12/1335:32> »
Depending on if your GM allows it, there's always Augment p42 with Articulated Weapon Arm or the faintly more reasonable External Mount, both of which allow you to mount a weapon and still keep both hands free. The only problem is I'm pretty sure you have to direct the attached weapon to shoot, it's not entirely autonomous. That's why I agree with Ouroboros: That's what drones are for.

Regarding cyberware-duplicated Shiva Arms, attaching them would probably require either expensive reinforcing that would negate the strength problems (and would likely make everyday actions more cumbersome), or you'd need a cybertorso to mount them onto anyway.

Mournclaw

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 108
  • The trees have eyes... And so do I!
« Reply #4 on: <11-20-12/1956:23> »
And not to forget that you can also take metagenic qualities as bioware anyways, so shiva arms -type of ruleset wouldn't be a problem, I think. And if they're cyberware and you're not worried about the game balance, I don't see a problem making them drone-like autonomous shooters or so. As a GM I'd rule for my players wanting something like that, that it requires a skillsoft and an appropriate pilot program to use as so. Also, smartlink system and probably cyber-eyes to function within the line of sight you have.

And still I'd apple some kind of penalty for actions that require balance if you're not willing to put up a set of extra legs also. Oh, and also the recoil would apply to both you and your arms of course. And I'd recommend a safe targetting system if you were using firearms with it. And you can just hope the arms don't glitch and go haywire soohting everything that moves, including yourself...

So, if you still want to, go ahead and take 'em. I'm just realistically taking everything into account, as the game balance weren't the issue, right? :D

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #5 on: <11-20-12/2315:09> »
... legs, too??  You are sadistic.

I really do wonder where the 'metagenetic qualities can be taken as bioware' rule comes from.  help?
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Unahim

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 789
« Reply #6 on: <11-21-12/0712:38> »
Recoil modifiers apply to guns though, Mourn, not to people, so that may end up a bit weird if the recoil on the cyberarms gives you recoil on the other ones as well.

Mournclaw

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 108
  • The trees have eyes... And so do I!
« Reply #7 on: <11-21-12/1001:22> »
Recoil modifiers apply to guns though, Mourn, not to people, so that may end up a bit weird if the recoil on the cyberarms gives you recoil on the other ones as well.
Yes, I totally forgot... It's been too long since I last played...

... legs, too??  You are sadistic.

I really do wonder where the 'metagenetic qualities can be taken as bioware' rule comes from.  help?
I'll just take that as a compliment.  ;)
Anyways, if I remember correctly, it was right before the metagenic qualities themselves in RC, the same page where the freak social penalty thing was, at the down left quarter of the page. The rule was kind of vaguely explanained, though, and I think it did involve GM approval, so...

Unahim

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 789
« Reply #8 on: <11-21-12/1035:24> »
Isn't it the other way around? Bioware may be taken as a metagenetic quality? AFB atm.

Mournclaw

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 108
  • The trees have eyes... And so do I!
« Reply #9 on: <11-21-12/1139:15> »
Quote
Non-magical metagenetic qualities that do not have a bioware
or cyberware equivalent may be introduced into the game
via Transgenic Alteration geneware (p. 92, Augmentation) at
the gamemaster’s discretion. Since these would be rare and new
transgenic treatments, they would cost at least 0.1 Essence and
an absolute BP value x 25,000 nuyen cost. Bonuses from metagenetic
qualities that mimic certain cyber or bio-implants or vice versa are
never cumulative.
Page 110, RC

I realize the downside of longer treatment time (of several months says augmentation) and the cost, but... It's still an option. I'd rather like two extra arms implanted for the combined essence cost of 2 but without the cost of 375k nyen... If you're a magician, though, and have the money and time... Not to mention shiva arms can't have pilots on them.

BreederofPuppets

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 36
« Reply #10 on: <11-21-12/1531:29> »
Alright, what about a technomancer's sprites?  They can be sent to aid any electronic device; can they aid in cyber-shiva limb set?

Mithlas

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 919
« Reply #11 on: <11-21-12/1732:48> »
Machine sprites can be sent into drones, which allows technomancers to play the role of rigger and something else (sniper, hacker, face, breaking and entering, etc). However, you have to pay karma to register sprites if you want to use more than one at a time, and that can be a very iffy decision if your GM is stingy with karma. Depends on your table.

JustADude

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 3043
  • Madness? This! Is! A FORUM!
« Reply #12 on: <11-21-12/1829:17> »
Machine sprites can be sent into drones, which allows technomancers to play the role of rigger and something else (sniper, hacker, face, breaking and entering, etc). However, you have to pay karma to register sprites if you want to use more than one at a time, and that can be a very iffy decision if your GM is stingy with karma. Depends on your table.

Small mix-up there.

You can only have one non-Registered Sprite, that much is true. However, I think you're confusing Registering, which has no karma cost but takes a lot of time and is limited to Sprites =< Charisma, with Linking, which sets a Sprite to autonomously perform a task for 256 days and does cost Karma.
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
― Albert Einstein

"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
― Me

Unahim

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 789
« Reply #13 on: <11-22-12/0440:27> »
You could run Diagnostics on the arms, at least...