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Shadowrun 2050 Matrix Rules - Missing Cost Table

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CanRay

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« on: <11-15-12/2130:25> »
Utility Prices
Utility Type   Availability         Cost
Combat           Rating X 3R   Rating X 250¥
Defense           Rating X 2   Rating X 100¥
Sensor           Rating X 1   Rating X 75¥
Masking           Rating X 3F   Rating X 200¥

Hardware Upgrade Prices
Hardware Type   Availability   Cost
MPCP                   Rating           Rating X 1,000¥
Hardening           Rating X 2R   Rating X 750¥
Memory                   Rating           Rating X 250¥
I/O Speed           Rating           Rating X 750¥
Storage                   -                   500¥/10 Mp
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #1 on: <11-15-12/2135:47> »
Awesome. Thanks CanRay.
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CanRay

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« Reply #2 on: <11-15-12/2157:40> »
Welcome.  Sorry it took so long, but I finally found the table while going through some old files.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #3 on: <11-15-12/2159:33> »
Welcome.  Sorry it took so long, but I finally found the table while going through some old files.

No problem. I knew you were trying your hardest to find it. Main ones really griping are the ones who take every opportunity to bash the company and game.
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Black

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« Reply #4 on: <11-15-12/2235:21> »
Thanks canray! You rock!
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Falconer

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« Reply #5 on: <11-16-12/1322:19> »
Thanks Canray, this helps a lot.

One fast question... is there a second tiered cost for programs of rank 1-3 vs rank 4-6.
I'm asking because this has always been present in Shadowrun ever since first ed (low rating programs are cheap... higher rating  rank 4-6 is normally 5x or 10x more expensive).


With the low memory upgrade costs... the upgrades are practically mandatory but make things a lot more workable.


All4Big:
What you don't understand is that I'm not a fanboy.  I don't uncritically accept everything that's handed out... if there's an issue with quality control I say it.   You mistake my disdain for munchkin powergaming and doing 'whatever you want' for a dislike of the entire product line.  When my disdain is only for poorly written, poorly concieved, incomplete elements and people who try and create loopholes and make problems for new GM's especially.  (without new players and GM's in particular games die... they lose their market base).


CanRay

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« Reply #6 on: <11-16-12/1331:41> »
Thanks Canray, this helps a lot.

One fast question... is there a second tiered cost for programs of rank 1-3 vs rank 4-6.
I'm asking because this has always been present in Shadowrun ever since first ed (low rating programs are cheap... higher rating  rank 4-6 is normally 5x or 10x more expensive).
I was going to work on the table more at a later date from when I found it, but the primary save I was using had the table deleted from it, and it got lost.  As I said, I found it again from one of my older back-up-back-ups.

I was debating having the higher cost, high-end programs, but was also thinking that Decking was getting hurtfully expensive enough without including that much.  Especially with Tar Pits making a return to ruin programs.

I think I was still considering this when I got distracted by system nodes.  Or was it the Matrix History?  ...  Sorry, my memory has bad sectors.
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Noble Drake

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« Reply #7 on: <11-16-12/1354:59> »
Oh come on CanRay, decking isn't expensive - you buy the hardware, sure, but then you can just spend time (rather than money) and program all the rest for yourself.

...that's how I used to do it, at least., you know... before program rating was a full half of the "how good are you?" equation.

Falconer

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« Reply #8 on: <11-16-12/1455:08> »
Well generally decking has always been the big money maker too though Canray.

Paydata pays big in the old SR1-3 setting and it was fairly easy to get your hands on in your downtime if you knew what you were doing.   The way you protected against a tarpit was to keep an offline copy of the program in secure storage.   Making it more of a temporary inconvenience since you'd lose the use of the program for the rest of the run.

This was the reason why decking equipment and software was so much more expensive than say cyber...  while it cost a lot more... it also paid a lot more!
« Last Edit: <11-16-12/1457:58> by Falconer »

CanRay

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« Reply #9 on: <11-16-12/1651:36> »
This was the reason why decking equipment and software was so much more expensive than say cyber...  while it cost a lot more... it also paid a lot more!
Which was the argument I was going with myself in my head when I was originally working on the table (I remember that part.).  Also, I put in the option for cheaper Cyberterminals (and Luggage) in the game as well...  So I was headed that way.

Please take into consideration that, again, this table is, like, V0.1 of what I was going to go with.  I'd have to continue tinkering with it at this point to make it V1.0 which would have been seen in the book.  But, as I said, it got copied over, and I got focused on other parts of the chapter (It was not an easy write, I assure everyone!).

So, consider this as a taste of "What might have been" if my save patterns was a bit different.

*Sighs*  Well, it's up now, there's something for it, and hopefully it helps you guys out with your games!
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Noble Drake

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« Reply #10 on: <11-16-12/1710:48> »
while it cost a lot more... it also paid a lot more!
Oh yes, it did. Like in the Mercurial adventure where you could talk the real job up to about 8k for each character... and the decker, if you had one, could pick up a cake-walk side job and snag 18k for himself.

Falconer

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« Reply #11 on: <11-18-12/2056:58> »
Toyed around with these some Canray... biggest thing this helps with is the memory issue.   Biggest change I can see from the old rules is that RAM type memory got very modestly more expensive but not so much as to be any kind of issue, but bulk data storage is a lot cheaper as it kinda should be.  I'm going to be using the word 'deck' a lot even though I'm mostly referring to upgradable luggage and terminals.  Also noting that actual decks are completely unupgradeable and there are no custom construction rules like there were in the past.

The other hardware costs are pretty far out of whack though.... 

Example... rating 10 MPCP... is only avail 10 and $10,000!!!
Hardening same problem...

A lot of that is easy to fix and keep the costs more inline by increasing the costs by an order of magnitude.   Then changing rating to Rating * Rating (squared)... for low levels it won't make a huge cost difference... but at high levels it will keep the mod costs in line with the raw costs of the highest end terminals/luggage.

Glancing at my old dead tree SR1... yeah the deck construction costs were something to behold with that nasty formula...  Roughly translating it into your terms... SR2050 MPCP is roughly half the SR1... part of the way the old attributes worked....  hardening about the same.   Also noting you completely eliminated the old BOD firmware programs that were built into the decks... which also increased the cost of the deck quite a bit.

Here's roughly the equation I came up with for hardware alone. reflecting that memory is 5x more valuable due to resizing... that IO/speed are now the same attribute... and your memory costs.  Also ignoring the old BOD firmware stuff and the like...   So again first cut...

Cost == ($1000 * (2* MPCP) * (Hardening + (5 * IO))) + ($250 * Memory) + ($50 * Storage)

MPCP tends to be more important in SR2050... hardening less so in terms of persona damage... moreso in terms of prevening your deck from getting fried... and IO is about the same in terms of importance... since memory space so very limited... it reflects the highest rating programs you can quickly unload/load on the fly from storage... as well as how fast you can access paydata.  Just my rough feel of things...


CanRay

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« Reply #12 on: <11-19-12/0037:45> »
Thanks for the advice,  Falconer.

I think the best thing I can suggest to groups is that you take the table and play with it to work with your game.  Some groups get insane paydata, while others don't, and everything in between, so price changes can be pretty heavy if I were to try and standardize it.

That, and this was the first draft of my table while still brainstorming, and it pretty much shows I believe.  I'm lucky I found it at all.
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Mara

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« Reply #13 on: <11-19-12/0106:09> »
I think...I will just use the old 2nd edition tables for prices.