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Ninja Gun

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WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #15 on: <10-16-12/0955:30> »
For some reason I always imagine the star wars blaster sounds for laser weapons burning the air.

Reaver

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« Reply #16 on: <10-16-12/1227:54> »
A couple of things I would personally consider:

What is your target environment? You infeltrating building? Urban sprawls?

Are you a stealth first shoot last build?

What's the GMing style of your GM? Realistic foes? Has a madon for cyber zombies?

The reasons I ask is an assault rifle isn't exactly conductive to being a building sneak. You're looking at 30+ inches of thick, ridged machinery... Which takes you out of any HVAC sneaking... Thus removing a viable option for prowling around a building unnoticed.

It's also a 2 handed weapon, which can cause an issue if you have to run and gun dealing with passkeys, doors, etc. it's bulk is also loud when slung. And in a confined area a suppressor may not help as much as a silencer (remember sub-sonic ammo too!)

A heavy pistol or a machine pistol might be a better option for you... They are easier to hide, cheaper to buy (no need for the chameleon mod) and at the short ranges of inner building combat are almost as effective while leaving a hand free to do other things in the middle of combat...

That's my opinion anyways.
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Mirikon

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« Reply #17 on: <10-16-12/1239:14> »
Multiple weapons. That's what you want. Personally, I'd go with three weapons. One melee, and two ranged. The melee weapon changes depending on what skills you have. I'm fond of Blades, so I typically pick up a katana or similar. If you use clubs, then a telescoping staff is a good pick. If you choose unarmed, then get the hardliner gloves. For your ranged weapon, an assault rifle or SMG is a good choice. Stack the RC so that you can fire two short bursts without recoil. Next, you'll want a gun for short range or as a backup. A machine pistol is a good choice here, since you're already going to have the automatics skill for the main gun. Pick one with a decent ammo capacity, and build the RC as before.
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Critias

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« Reply #18 on: <10-16-12/1558:52> »
....What's a Ninja doing with an assault rifle?  :x
Being brutally effective with the most lethal technology available to him, just like they traditionally were (inasmuch as the hyped/misunderstood ninja traditionally were anything)? 

Mithlas

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« Reply #19 on: <11-03-12/1934:45> »
Aww. I wanted a gun that shot ninjas at people.
The ninja unions wouldn't have it. Here's a catapult that shoots tanks, however.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

More on-topic, Reaver's already mentioned that if you're going with a more infiltration-specialist, having a hand free to handle hardware and other gear (like grappel guns for those third-floor-entries) would be more useful to you than a weapon that's relatively easy to perceive and not that hard to throw off in melee due to its size and inherent loud quality of an assault rifle. In most situations, anyway, but I'm thinking more of the indoors/urban combat situation, where combat rarely occurs outside 10m.

JustADude

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« Reply #20 on: <11-03-12/2011:22> »
Aww. I wanted a gun that shot ninjas at people.
The ninja unions wouldn't have it. Here's a catapult that shoots tanks, however.
[spoiler][/spoiler]

More on-topic, Reaver's already mentioned that if you're going with a more infiltration-specialist, having a hand free to handle hardware and other gear (like grappel guns for those third-floor-entries) would be more useful to you than a weapon that's relatively easy to perceive and not that hard to throw off in melee due to its size and inherent loud quality of an assault rifle. In most situations, anyway, but I'm thinking more of the indoors/urban combat situation, where combat rarely occurs outside 10m.

For those CQB situations, a Viper with AP Flechettes is the way to go for 1-handed firepower, if your GM allows it. There's some ambiguity on whether AP Flechettes "count" for Flrechette Only weapons, though, so check first. It's -20% range, which is a "whopping" meter off Short Range (4m vs 5m) and Medium Range still goes well beyond the 10 meter mark. In return you get 8P, AP +0, in a totally legal (except for the APF ammo) weapon that comes with built-in suppression.

Plenty of ammo capacity since it uses a 30-round "clip", and an Improved Range Finder will help with those longer-range situations.
« Last Edit: <11-03-12/2017:10> by JustADude »
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Charasanya

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« Reply #21 on: <11-07-12/0531:05> »
Firearms are anathema to the code of the Silent Killer.

Ducks too.

Ducks are anathema too.

Mirikon

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« Reply #22 on: <11-07-12/0809:20> »
A ninja is not supposed to be seen or heard. Guns are noisy and draw attention. A poisoned blade or something like a dart or shuriken is the kind of thing a ninja would normally use (though a ninja wouldn't hesitate to pick up a fallen gun in the middle of combat, of course).
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Ener

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« Reply #23 on: <11-07-12/0837:40> »
Call me lazy, but I would just have gotten my paws on an Urban Fighter with a ceramic silencer.

Unahim

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« Reply #24 on: <11-07-12/1130:06> »
But with the damage shurikens do, only a troll could kill you with one before you scream :p

Mirikon

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« Reply #25 on: <11-07-12/1223:18> »
But with the damage shurikens do, only a troll could kill you with one before you scream :p
Poison, my good man, poison. Slab, Laes, Shade, whatever works for you.
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WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #26 on: <11-07-12/1243:23> »
Quote
A ninja is not supposed to be seen or heard. Guns are noisy and draw attention. A poisoned blade or something like a dart or shuriken is the kind of thing a ninja would normally use (though a ninja wouldn't hesitate to pick up a fallen gun in the middle of combat, of course).

A silenced gun with electronic firing (which makes it caseless) isn't really that noisy (-7 to perception against a threshold 2). With the invention of Capsule rounds, I see no reason a ninja wouldn't be slinging around a silenced firearm to deliver their poison cocktails.

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For those CQB situations, a Viper with AP Flechettes is the way to go for 1-handed firepower, if your GM allows it. There's some ambiguity on whether AP Flechettes "count" for Flrechette Only weapons, though, so check first. It's -20% range, which is a "whopping" meter off Short Range (4m vs 5m) and Medium Range still goes well beyond the 10 meter mark. In return you get 8P, AP +0, in a totally legal (except for the APF ammo) weapon that comes with built-in suppression.

Plenty of ammo capacity since it uses a 30-round "clip", and an Improved Range Finder will help with those longer-range situations.
First off, if AP Flechette ammo counted as Flechette ammo for Flechette only weapons, it would be stated in the AP Flechette entry. It is not. There is no ambiguity here, there is occasionally nice GMs that allow it when it makes since.

Second off, the Ares Viper Slivergun doesn't even fire Flechette ammunition to begin with. It fires metal slivers that "count as flechette ammunition". A nice GM may let you buy a tungsten block of slivers for it, but it was never even a flechette only weapon to begin with. It's a special ammunition that counts as flechette rounds weapon.

Your case of ambiguity isn't really a case of ambiguity, it's a case of "well it doesn't say things don't work this way, so I'll just assume they do."

JustADude

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« Reply #27 on: <11-07-12/1838:33> »
Quote
For those CQB situations, a Viper with AP Flechettes is the way to go for 1-handed firepower, if your GM allows it. There's some ambiguity on whether AP Flechettes "count" for Flrechette Only weapons, though, so check first. It's -20% range, which is a "whopping" meter off Short Range (4m vs 5m) and Medium Range still goes well beyond the 10 meter mark. In return you get 8P, AP +0, in a totally legal (except for the APF ammo) weapon that comes with built-in suppression.

Plenty of ammo capacity since it uses a 30-round "clip", and an Improved Range Finder will help with those longer-range situations.
First off, if AP Flechette ammo counted as Flechette ammo for Flechette only weapons, it would be stated in the AP Flechette entry. It is not. There is no ambiguity here, there is occasionally nice GMs that allow it when it makes since.

Second off, the Ares Viper Slivergun doesn't even fire Flechette ammunition to begin with. It fires metal slivers that "count as flechette ammunition". A nice GM may let you buy a tungsten block of slivers for it, but it was never even a flechette only weapon to begin with. It's a special ammunition that counts as flechette rounds weapon.

Your case of ambiguity isn't really a case of ambiguity, it's a case of "well it doesn't say things don't work this way, so I'll just assume they do."

*self-redacted due to uncivil content*
*Summary: You appear to universally take the most restrictive semantic interpretation of the grammatical structures as the only possible meaning when reading a body of information. Others, including myself, do not and, instead, acknowledge that the meaning of a passage may vary greatly depending on meta-contextual information, and then seek to find the most mechanically consistent interpretation that fits with the perceived intent of the author, as well as all presented "fluff". You are not an employee of Catalyst, nor is your account displaying as a registered member of the Demo Team, therefore your opinions and interpretations carry no more authority than anyone else's, and are certainly not the absolute Word Of God, which is reserved for the author who penned a given section... or possibly Mr. Hardy, the Line Developer. Please quit acting as if they are.
*

Now, more on point, please notice that the name Armor Piercing Flechettes can be neatly described as "flechettes that contain armor-piercing properties," which is where the ambiguity comes in. It's not the exact "Flechette Ammunition" called by Flechette Only weapons, which hyper-restrictive types use as grounds to preclude APF ammo from use with (f) weapons. However, a more moderate interpretation brings up the possibility that the writer considered the name as being so obvious an indication of intent that he didn't feel the need to redundantly declare APF ammo "usable in Flechette Only weapons" in the body text... since, you know, the word "Flechette" is right there following the descriptive prefix "Armor Piercing."

And, yes, I'm very well aware that Viper ammo only "counts as" Flechette ammo, which makes APF a sketchy choice even if it can be used interchangeably with "standard" Flechettes. However, exactly how far "counts as" goes is yet another ambiguity, which means it's up to the GM of that particular table to decide how it all interacts. That's why, if you notice, I bloody well told him to check with his GM.
« Last Edit: <11-07-12/2241:59> by JustADude »
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WellsIDidIt

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« Reply #28 on: <11-07-12/2250:18> »
There is a difference between asking the GM to create a house rule for you and something being ambiguous by the rules. This case is not ambiguous. A reading of the rules shows no ambiguity. If something says that it can use Flechette ammunition only, and there is a type of ammunition called Flechette, that is the ammunition it can use.

Knowing a slight bit about guns, this isn't exactly a out of line either. Trying firing a high power round out of a gun not rated for it and your gun goes kaploowie.

As far as most restrictive, no, I take what the rules clearly state and propose that. If I tell someone about a house rules, I tell them it's a house rule or common house rule. I don't tell them to go and tell their GM, "Well this is ambiguous so can I do it," when the rules are quite clear. That's just effectively trying to sleaze something by the GM without being wholly honest.

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However, a more moderate interpretation
This is the stem of the problem you seem to have with me. I don't give people advice based on interpreting the rules to a point where I think they were intended. I tell them based on what the rules actually say.

Unahim

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« Reply #29 on: <11-08-12/0604:23> »
While I have many times disagreed with your reading of "what the rules actually say", Wells, (since quite often they're not nearly clear enough for "what they actually say" to actually be one clear concept) I think I have to agree here.

The gun fires slivers with similar properties to flechettes, not actual flechettes. Maybe you can convince your GM that it'd be fair for there to also be AP versions of these slivers (and I do think it's quite fair to do so), but that's clearly a houserule, and not RAW.

I'm generally a proponent of house rules, though. No one game system can be a perfect match for every group of players, after all.