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Land of Promise - Rampant Speculation Please!

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AceFace

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« Reply #45 on: <08-23-12/1634:21> »
Genuine question - does it work out unbalanced if you take the hours worked into consideration? Presumably a one page piece of art takes a lot longer to complete than a page of text, so does it not balance out in the long run? It really should if it doesn't - a lot of the writing for SR supplements is aces, whilst some of the artwork is not so much *thinks of metavariants in Runner's Companion and shudders*.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #46 on: <08-24-12/0000:10> »
Depends on the writer and the artist. You have some that can bust out a drawing in ten minutes, ink it, then paint it in less than two, while others can take a month for a single piece.

Ditto for writers. You have good ones like Bull, and then you have hacks like me ... I'm fast, but hoo buddy, those first drafts are *terrible*. It takes a few passes before they look even halfway decent, but if needed, I can do up around 10,000 words in an eight-hour session. I won't be HAPPY, but I can do it. Nobody who reads it will be happy, either. :)

As for art, I'm shoddy, but I can do up super-hero style people at a fairly decent clip. Ask me to go outside that boundry and do, say, buildings, or a car, or normal people with clothing (So many folds!) and detailed hands (*whimper!*) and I'll direct you to an ACTUAL artist, thanks. If you want a cartoon doodle of Batman's head, I can do that, but beyond that? Yikes.

So, uhm, "It depends"?

The bold-faced truth of the matter is that writers are more common than artists, especially artists that can work a certain style. That drives the prices down. Yay, market forces! Wait. I mean, BOOooooo, market forces!

My entry vector for geekdom was from comics, and there, artists make *way* more than writers. That's well known and expected. Keeps me from too much envy over the art peoples. I just wish that they weren't all thin and pretty while writers tend towards fat and glasses-y. Keep the pay, just make me beautiful! *fainting slump*

Critias

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« Reply #47 on: <08-24-12/0023:28> »
Genuine question - does it work out unbalanced if you take the hours worked into consideration?
The issue there is that there's no way to really know how long someone's worked on something (it's not like we have time clocks in our houses or all turn on our webcam as we start working, or something).  What's more, the amount of work involved in a product is...well...inconsistent, even for the same writer or working on very similar projects.  Sometimes one chapter will hang a writer up for a while.  Sometimes one piece of ~3,000 word fiction only takes about an hour.  It all varies wildly, not just from writer to writer, but from page to page. 

So we get paid for the work we do, not for the amount of time it takes us to do it.

AceFace

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« Reply #48 on: <08-24-12/0430:15> »
So, are there ever occasions when you think - I was very well paid for X piece of work (because it just came fairly naturally) or do you always end up feeling underpaid? It makes me sad to think of you guys feeling under-rewarded for what's usually pretty sterling work.

Wakshaani

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« Reply #49 on: <08-24-12/0825:00> »
Well, considering that, for years, I've written for free?

And now I get paid to write for a game I love, to share my enjoyment with other people and maybe, just maybe, inspire new people to pick up the game and see all kinds of adventure the ame way I have?

I have utterly no problem with the pay scale. :)

You write RPG stuff because you love RPGs, not to get rich.

If I can switch thi sup into a story?

When I was a kid, I didn't have roots. I was three days old when my family hopped in a U-Haul and left my birthplace (A town that I've never been back to, by the by), and over the next 8 years, we moved 27 times. I never had roots, and I made few friends simply because when I did, I knew that we'd move again and I'd lose them. What I *had* were books; Richard Scary and Dr Seuss were friends that I could take with me, that would be waiting for me after school no matter where we lived. Books were a touchstone that I relied on and that got me through some rough years. I'm in debt to these two men, and it's been my goal, ever since I was able to comprehend that, to give back to the community in a way that they'd taken care of me. I know that somewhere out there's a kid in the same situation I was, and if I can be the hand that writes a friend that they can carry, even for just one person, then I've done my job as a human being.

In other words, the money's nice, but that's not why I do this.

AceFace

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« Reply #50 on: <08-24-12/1035:37> »
That's great dude. I always forget how nice it must be to do something you love for a living.

Critias

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« Reply #51 on: <08-24-12/1124:12> »
It's also worth pointing out, I think, that most of us don't do this "for a living."  We're not freelancing to pay the rent or put food on the table.  It's not the income we rely on to keep a roof over our head.  We've got "day jobs" (as we tend to call them) which are our real careers and/or income, and the freelancing is a side gig we do 'cause we can rather than 'cause we have to

Simagal

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« Reply #52 on: <08-24-12/1350:50> »
I prefer books, those trees will pay for droping sap on my car. I used to be anti PDF, because I felt like it was hurting my flgs. But if it will never see print then I will eventually by it. Besides I can enlarge PDFs so I don't need to wear my glasses.
Land of Promise will likely bump Safehouses from the buy list when I have spare money.
Andrew Grim

Crimsondude

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« Reply #53 on: <08-24-12/1853:47> »
What Critias said. Though some of us are more published that others, and since we're mostly paid by the word the people who are writing large chunks of sourcebooks or entire book-length modules have it a little better than others. I have had around 125,000 words published now with Clutch, but 100,000 of those were between late 2010 and last December. Clutch is the only thing I've written for this year. Critias has written a ton of material for Missions, but no one got to see it until Gen Con. Aside from that there were only a couple short stories between this and last year's Gen Con. Of course, it's not a matter of skill (He's the best writer by far) so much as time and interest as well. I've been crazy busy myself, but I was insistent on writing the pieces I did for Clutch (the people who fight/hate dragons).


That said, it's nice to get a check for 43,000 contracted wordcount. Though to be fair it's more "Look at what they let me write!" (DeeCee! Finally!?!) than "Whoo! Money!"
« Last Edit: <08-24-12/1906:23> by James Meiers »

CanRay

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« Reply #54 on: <08-24-12/2246:30> »
I lost money on Safehouses and Burn.  So far, the Matrix Chapter of SR2050 is the only piece that I've actually seen in the black.

Oh, and I bet Safehouses will be MUCH more useful for you than Land of Promise will EVER be.  It should be the purchase you have higher on the priorities IMHO.  ;D
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Mirikon

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« Reply #55 on: <08-24-12/2252:59> »
Now, now, CanRay, let the people who actually play decide what their priorities are. ;)
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Bull

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« Reply #56 on: <08-24-12/2312:58> »
At the end of the day, the check?  That's nice.  I consider that bonus money to my day job.

But having a Shadowrun fan tell you they liked something you worked on, or seeing a kickass review of your product on Drive Thru or Dumpshock or here?  Just knowing that something I wrote or edited or developed or whatever helped someone have a good time with the game world I love?  That's worth more than a measly paycheck, and it's why I don't get too upset about artists generally making more than me.

At the end of the day, pretty pictures help sell product.  But it's the words that make the game fun.

Bull

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« Reply #57 on: <08-24-12/2314:32> »
By the way, and I can'tr stress this enough...  Please, review stuff you buy.  If you buy a PDF, review it on Drive Thru,.  Or drop a review here.  or on Dumpshock.  Or RPGnet.  or wherever.  Doesn't need to be lengthy, doesn't need to be glowing.  It just has to be honest.  Feedback helps us do better next time, and feedback is often what keeps us coming back for more.

CanRay

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« Reply #58 on: <08-24-12/2340:16> »
Now, now, CanRay, let the people who actually play decide what their priorities are. ;)
Had to try.   :-[
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #59 on: <08-25-12/0008:34> »
Oh lord yes. Writers are often neurotic messes and we need validation! Or, you know, mockery. When I screw up, I like knowing it, so I can fix it next time. On the one hand, we can know what people want more of or liked by looking at sales figures, but on the other hand, getting specifics from reviews can be huge.

To go political for just a moment, if a survey question asked, "Is President Obama doing a good job", and there were lots of 'No' votes, that tells you something. If you then get additional reponses that say, "He's horrible and needs to sign more Republican laws into effect!", it gives you a different tale than "He needs to fight against the Republicans more! I say he sucks because he rolls over!" Two different stories that both generate "He's not doing a good job" scores, but for *radically* different reasons.

(For those who now want to launch into a political thing, please don't! We try to keep that out of the forums! This was a one-off example that was being used as an example only. Much obliged!)

So, when you say if you did, or did not, like a product, giving reasons why is very, very vital. Maybe the rules weren't followed and that bugs you. Maybe soem canon was violated (The capital of the UCAS is Toronto? Lofwyr is actually a Century Ferret in disguise? WHAT?!), maybe there was too much humor, maybe there wasn't *enough* humor, maybe some bit of data got reposted on five straight pages and you're wondering who did the layout, or maybe, just MAYBE, you got a book that gave you a bunch of cool run ideas, enriched teh world, gave you well-balanced new toys, and you can't wait to tell your friends so they can buy one too ... trust me, that kind of thing brightens someone's day.

So, write reviews, tell us what you think, and know that, hey, we're fans *too*. We want to do cool stuff! Help us out, and we can make the world even more awesome than it already is.

...

Wow, we're way off topic. Hey look! Land of Promise! Elves! Gotta love 'em, right?