[hobgoblin]

SR was never made to be internally consistent from day one. It was instead designed around some kind of rule of cool.

End result is that if we want to build some kind of consistency on top of the foundation we have to accept some level of oddity, if not downright contradiction. Hell, the whole matrix system was in essence the US telco network of the 80s, with phreaks and 3D BBSs.

[Nath]

The big loss was really any research that wasn't reported back to Chiba in last quarter of 2059.  A bigger black eye would be data loss in the matrix crash 2.0.  When your raison d'etre is to store data, and that suddenly goes poof, who is going to re-invest in an incompetent company?

The funny part here is Renraku Computer Systems already suffered from a massive loss of data in June 2059. Brightlight (aka "Leonardo") then erased all the data related to his cooperation with Renraku. That was 12 to 18 months of work of Renraku best R&D labs based on Brightlight technology trashed. Following that, Renraku had to perform  reverse engineering on its own products. Since Renraku could not publicly admit they were working with a wanted Matrix terrorist that erased data while a Corporate Court investigations was underway, they may have conveniently blamed loss of data on the arcology situation instead.

Though the books mention only the kill switch as the reason for the AEP to become sentient as Deus, Brightlight maybe suggested consequent changes to the AEP code and simply erased the modified parts when he left, without putting back the old ones.

[CitizenJoe]

That data hack may have been what saved Renraku.  In order to avoid the same situation from happening again, they may have backed up information offline as a policy.  Then when the crash happened years later, they were ready with backups.

[Wakshaani]

And Renraku slunk off with their tail tucked between their legs. Says a lot about how powerful corps are vs. (developed) countries. Granted there realy wasn't any profit involved in Renraku fighting the UCAS for control, but still.

[conspiracy hat]
That's just what they WANTED you to think! I used to have proof of the TRUTH, until THEY took it from me. Keep watching the skies!
[/conspiracy hat]

[Stry]

My guess is the people who lost their SIN are not necessarily UCAS or a AAA mega corp citizens, but they are probably people who may work for an A or AA corp that had their data stores near one of the places that got hit with an EM bomb.   

[CitizenJoe]

Again, the EM pulse does not affect optical chips.  The data cannot be lost through that pulse.  There is a way for the fiber optic lines to physically get fried via proximity to the power lines, which may blow as a result of the EM pulse, but that doesn't affect data stored in optical media.  Access to that media may be difficult without power and if the trunk lines burned out, connecting to the matrix outside your region becomes problematic. 

I'm not sure where the SIN registry is stored.  I thought it was on Z-O.  But every nation has their own database as well as feeding that data to the registry.  So, to be erased, you need to hit both the registry and your nation... and then probably your company and local municipality depending on how connected you were.  If you hit one of those spots, the data can flow back in from the other redundant systems and databases.  Data casualties need to be caused by a data attack.  Probably a worm that attacks the SIN and then infects any system that inquires about that SIN.

The people hit by the SIN worm were probably welfare or retirees with little active injection into the economy but a consistent monthly check coming out.  Those are the ones that hackers would target to have funds diverted to their own accounts while knowing the victims didn't have the power to fight back.

[CanRay]

Fires and riots, OTOH, affect optical chips nicely.

[CitizenJoe]

But why are they rioting?  I can see gangs going into cities to loot during the black outs, but they're going to be hampered by the crashed system as well.  So they can't get too far out of their home turf.  They still have to get by security, and guns aren't really affected by a power outage.  In order for 'fire and riots' to hit the SIN registry, they would have to find it first (and again, I think it is stored on the Z-O in space)

[CanRay]

Don't know the human race, do you?

People would Riot over TUESDAY if they thought they could get away with it.  A Matrix Crash is just another damned good reason because the police services are overwhelmed/uncontrolled/rioting themselves.

Of course, that might be my cynical side talking.   

[CitizenJoe]

Unless the people that are rioting are the computer nerds working the SIN registry, rioting isn't going to affect that database. 

Data loss needs to be conducted by a data attack, not something in the physical world.  If you go to the library and burn one book, it doesn't destroy every other copy of that book.  The intellectual property of that book continues to exist.  That specific book might have been a limited edition signed by the author and then stained by his blood when the adoring fan jabbed him in the eye with the pen when it was signed, but that aspect of the book is more of a magical oddity than data.  The SIN equivalent would be if you did a transaction at a store and then burned the store down before it could update its files for the evening.  Yes, that transaction may not update your SIN, but your SIN is still out there.  Erasing a SIN is the equivalent of going back in time and killing the author before he publishes his book... or more likely simply grabbing the copy from the editor's desk before going to print.

[Mirikon]

Data loss happens in two ways. Either the files are erased or corrupted (say by a worm sweeping through and munching on things), or by the physical media on which the files were stored being damaged. The worm didn't erase or corrupt everything in its path, but it did enough damage that what remained in affected systems was of questionable use. And facilities that held the data then got hit with the fallout from where the worm did take out critical safeguards. Power systems malfunctioned all over the planet, resulting in power surges and blackouts, fire suppression systems going off, water mains bursting, and all other kinds of chaos. Then you have the metahuman element, where all it takes is one person breaking a window to steal a new trid for their apartment, and suddenly you have a citywide riot. Hell, even today there is always looting when you have blackouts and communication outages.

As for how Renraku's data stores were spared in Asia, I'd assume that in addition to extensive firewalls and security deckers which would have slowed the worm down, they'd have some way to cut the hardline to the servers, or even cutting power to the entire facility (which would cut the servers off from the Matrix, naturally). This is not as simple as it sounds, but it could be done fairly quickly, though getting systems back online afterward would take time. But the data would be safe, as long as you had enough warning to isolate the host and cut it off. The Worm didn't hit everywhere all at once, afterall. There were eggs spread around the world, but even so, there's a limit to how fast the worm could move through systems and replicate.

[Crimsondude]

A bigger black eye would be data loss in the matrix crash 2.0.  When your raison d'etre is to store data, and that suddenly goes poof, who is going to re-invest in an incompetent company?

Because of Deus they came out of Crash 2.0 mostly unscathed and sitting on top of a pile of their fallen foes. They backed up the MRG in Singapore and kept redundant, offline backups of all of their data. So they are just fine in that regard.

Now you see, this is where I get confused.  I've got some people on these boards saying that the second crash wiped out all this information and people became SINless and all that rot, but then I also get rational business strategies that say that the Crash was just a momentary hiccup.  It's almsost like there are multiple authors trying to push different agendas. 

Both are true, and it is presented as both horrible and inconsequential in System Failure and other books.

*shrugs*

[Mirikon]

That's because it really was horrible in some (ok, most) places, and inconsequential in others. The more warning people had, the easier it was to lock down connections and physically disconnect. And in some areas, where there wasn't much Matrix access to begin with, there wasn't really any change to speak of. And there were places where the worm was fought off, such as the Nexus in Denver.

The Worm was a chaotic entity, and chaos can leave islands in the storm, like a lone house seemingly untouched when the entire rest of the street has been completely leveled by a tornado.

[CitizenJoe]

This ^

I'm actually very happy with that explanation.  Sure there were some riots, it was a tuesday after all.  Sure some people lost everything, they were playing with virtual stuff the whole time anyway.  Some people weren't affected.  Corps kept chugging along.  Parts of the Matrix were destroyed.  Parts survived. 

What bugs me is when it is painted with a uniform brush claiming that a minor side effect was widespread and affected every one.

I like my wired matrix, but I also like wireless on that last mile for mobile linking.   I think they both have a place.

I like that optical chips are 'immune' to EMP, but I still like that much of the hardware to access that data IS affected by EMP.

I like that the Elite can have this whole augmented reality thing with commlinks and such, but I think it is stupid to imply that every scrub has one.  I'm very happy to accept that scrubs get 'tagged' with cheap RFIDs so that they can be tracked by commlinks.

I like that commlinks and PANs are convenient, but I think it is completely bone headed to link everything to them.

I like my credsticks, but I'm also happy with commlinks serving the same function if you've got them.  I don't see the credstick going away.

Most importantly, I like that SR is SR.  I will shake my fist impotently and rock so hard on my porch when people try to make it DND or Ghost in the Shell, or any other fanboyish clone.  You can do it ironically, but stay off my lawn!

[Crimsondude]

Most importantly, I like that SR is SR.  I will shake my fist impotently and rock so hard on my porch when people try to make it DND or Ghost in the Shell, or any other fanboyish clone.  You can do it ironically, but stay off my lawn!

Amen.