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bangbangtequila

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« Reply #45 on: <03-16-12/0242:37> »
You're a metagenically improved elf with 6 points (and a specialty) in pistols. I think you covering the weapons expert side of things takes it.

I don't know. I'm playing my technomancer in another game now, and I have no interest in a mage or a mundane hacker/rigger. Face characters are just silly to me, because I can usually have my Face skills be great as a sidenote. I will think, but realistically, the only spot I'd really be after is wrapped up by a character with an almost equal agility score. (I'd probably cap it out with Genetic Heritage (Optimization) and Exceptional Attribute, bringing my Augmented Max up to 15, rating 3 Synaptic Boosters, and have a pitiful remainder in gear. *shrug* as I said, I have to think, though if you'd rather just find someone else I understand. I'm a little behind as I had written the game off a while ago.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #46 on: <03-16-12/0248:34> »
You're a metagenically improved elf with 6 points (and a specialty) in pistols. I think you covering the weapons expert side of things takes it.

I don't know. I'm playing my technomancer in another game now, and I have no interest in a mage or a mundane hacker/rigger. Face characters are just silly to me, because I can usually have my Face skills be great as a sidenote. I will think, but realistically, the only spot I'd really be after is wrapped up by a character with an almost equal agility score. (I'd probably cap it out with Genetic Heritage (Optimization) and Exceptional Attribute, bringing my Augmented Max up to 15, rating 3 Synaptic Boosters, and have a pitiful remainder in gear. *shrug* as I said, I have to think, though if you'd rather just find someone else I understand. I'm a little behind as I had written the game off a while ago.

Looking at the street name listed for you on the OOC discussion thread, it looks like you had a hacker-type in (at least that's what I'd imagine going by the leet-speak in the name). Cutting you out would leave us without a hacker if this is the case, but if that is what you really want, from my experience, that's the easiest for a GM to give a little back-up here and there on. Heck, that's normally what I do when I run a game, since I've rarely had a hacker put before me by a player.
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Thvor

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« Reply #47 on: <03-16-12/1046:45> »
Okay, finally, final attempt at posting a character sheet.

[spoiler]
...
== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Past)
Astral Hazing (non-Awakened)
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Extravagant Eyes
Judas
Low-Light Vision
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Mood Hair
Records on File (Tir Na Nog)
Restricted Gear (Rating 3)
SINner (Standard) (Siobhan Beckman)
...
[/spoiler]

Pardon my jumping in--I'm trying to learn from watching--but I don't think these qualities work, unless I'm missing something. Class III SURGE requires at least 30 BP of positive metagenetic qualities and 15 negative; you've got the negatives, but the only positive is the agility improvement, leaving you 10 BP shy. Also, you've got 35 BP of non-metagenetic negative qualities, and 20 BP of metegenetic ones; since you've got more than the 15 required by the SURGE, those extra 5 count towards the 35 BP cap.

As I read the rules, I think you need to spend at least 10 more BP on positive metagenetics, and you're over-budget on your negatives.

-Thvor
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SeriousOne338

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« Reply #48 on: <03-16-12/1050:11> »
Okay, finally, final attempt at posting a character sheet.

[spoiler]
...
== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Past)
Astral Hazing (non-Awakened)
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Extravagant Eyes
Judas
Low-Light Vision
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Mood Hair
Records on File (Tir Na Nog)
Restricted Gear (Rating 3)
SINner (Standard) (Siobhan Beckman)
...
[/spoiler]

Pardon my jumping in--I'm trying to learn from watching--but I don't think these qualities work, unless I'm missing something. Class III SURGE requires at least 30 BP of positive metagenetic qualities and 15 negative; you've got the negatives, but the only positive is the agility improvement, leaving you 10 BP shy. Also, you've got 35 BP of non-metagenetic negative qualities, and 20 BP of metegenetic ones; since you've got more than the 15 required by the SURGE, those extra 5 count towards the 35 BP cap.

As I read the rules, I think you need to spend at least 10 more BP on positive metagenetics, and you're over-budget on your negatives.

-Thvor

I did just notice that, never worked with surge characters yet still reading on the rules. That being said All4BigGuns, you need to rework that part of your sheet.
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Character:
Dos.Boot http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=7368.15

Sichr

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« Reply #49 on: <03-16-12/1114:17> »
Serious, just an advice, maybe vain, so you can ignore it, but maybe useful....I suggest you read this:
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=6302.0

thread, and before the game starts, intensively think when, how and under what circumstances negative qualities affect/unaffect your game. There seems to be quite a schism between players, and you better sort out what side are you approving...

SeriousOne338

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« Reply #50 on: <03-16-12/1158:50> »
Serious, just an advice, maybe vain, so you can ignore it, but maybe useful....I suggest you read this:
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=6302.0

thread, and before the game starts, intensively think when, how and under what circumstances negative qualities affect/unaffect your game. There seems to be quite a schism between players, and you better sort out what side are you approving...

I see your point let me think on this, the characters seem to have they're own overriding problems and the group would self destruct.
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Character:
Dos.Boot http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=7368.15

SeriousOne338

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« Reply #51 on: <03-16-12/1212:19> »
OK after reading through all the characters I’ve come to an understanding, almost all the characters are going to fail to work as a group. I do not like the abundant use of amnesia this is going to cause unknown amounts of trouble. A single player using it is ok but two combined with the other flaws are going to work against the group. SO here is what I am asking over the next week please re-write your characters, and tone down the craziness. I’m not trying to be mean but I want the game to work the players to have fun and all the characters to survive and not going into a gun fight halfway throw amongst themselves.

So here is want I want to see I am looking for mercenaries, and by that I mean the people who can operate out side of urban environments. I'm not saying most runners would not do but this is the relativity remember Johnson's Hire for results not because your a crazy guy with an interesting past.

There are roles that need to be filled:
-Transport (Sichr/Ramirez might do for now)
-Fire Support
-Demo/Engineer
-Communications
-Doc (Kayzie/ Micky would work perfect for this role)

Sorry for this but I think with the characters we have right now the run would end in a gun fight between players and no one would be happy.


Colors: Speech, Thought, Matrix
Character:
Dos.Boot http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=7368.15

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #52 on: <03-16-12/1328:34> »
Okay, finally, final attempt at posting a character sheet.

[spoiler]
...
== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Past)
Astral Hazing (non-Awakened)
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Extravagant Eyes
Judas
Low-Light Vision
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Mood Hair
Records on File (Tir Na Nog)
Restricted Gear (Rating 3)
SINner (Standard) (Siobhan Beckman)
...
[/spoiler]

Pardon my jumping in--I'm trying to learn from watching--but I don't think these qualities work, unless I'm missing something. Class III SURGE requires at least 30 BP of positive metagenetic qualities and 15 negative; you've got the negatives, but the only positive is the agility improvement, leaving you 10 BP shy. Also, you've got 35 BP of non-metagenetic negative qualities, and 20 BP of metegenetic ones; since you've got more than the 15 required by the SURGE, those extra 5 count towards the 35 BP cap.

As I read the rules, I think you need to spend at least 10 more BP on positive metagenetics, and you're over-budget on your negatives.

-Thvor

I did just notice that, never worked with surge characters yet still reading on the rules. That being said All4BigGuns, you need to rework that part of your sheet.

Reading the Changeling section of Runner's Companion more thoroughly, I discovered that while yes, I do need to rework to get more positive metagenetics. The negatives are within the rules.  The base SURGE quality itself is stated to count toward the limit of positives, but the metagenetics it unlocks are implicitly stated to not count toward the limit.

[/quote]
Depending on the level taken, the character must choose a
number of Positive and Negative Metagenetic qualities (p. 110),
though gamemasters may chose to take on Negative Metagenetic
qualitiy selection to ensure balance. Metagenetic qualities chosen
in this fashion do not count toward the 35 BP cap on qualities,
as
long as they remain within the totals defined by the Changeling
quality. If the player chooses Metagenetic qualities with a total BP
value greater than the given thresholds, the excess cost or bonus
BP count toward the character’s normal limits for qualities.
[/quote]

The next section in coupling with the prior should put me well within the limits considering that SURGE and full Restricted Gears like that only come to 30 BP (since the quoted section of Runner's Companion says that the metagenetics don't count toward the limit, I'm within the limit). All this said, I almost agreed with that guy, but then I read more carefully and found that line which states that they don't count.

[/quote]
After a metatype is chosen, transforming the character into
a changeling is as simple as choosing one of the 3 levels of the
Changeling Positive quality (next column). This quality counts
towards the character’s limit of Positive qualities
[/quote]
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bangbangtequila

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« Reply #53 on: <03-16-12/1344:23> »
Honestly, I think SURGE III is a little crazy. The amount of genetic Yahtzee involved in surviving such a change makes the odds of being a magician look like a coin toss. Of course a solid RP justification (You happened to crash your car in the middle of Howling Cayote's famous great ritual, sure. If you sneezed on some pixie dust one day, I wouldn't bite...)

As a question, are you providing any free non-determined contact points? IE, Charisma x 2 or Charisma + Intuition BP to be spent filling out our roster, or should I be setting aside a number of BP to ensure my smuggling ring is effective?

Ok, well I've thought up a concept I like, based off an Elven smuggler. He will be a primary combatant, partially fulfilling the fire support role (I can only assume that we must all be competently able to contribute there, but he will have some serious firepower), partially fulfilling Demolitions, and be competently able to provide some needed social ability and supplies (I'll be tying in a group contact as his smuggling operation, able to provide weapons and armour that "fell off the truck" to those who can pay. No freebies, but he'll have a very valuable resource to provide the team and possibly to apply to trades).

If anyone would like to tie in our backgrounds and characters, please send me a message or contact me by email/gtalk at bangbangtequilla@gmail.com
I try to be online most of the time.

Yurislav Volken
Male Elf (SURGEd II*)
Gun Runner
*Maybe. I'm going to try to avoid it, but we'll see.

A citizen of the Kisiov region, Yuri stands tall at 6'2" with a slim build of 185 lbs. He keeps his jet black hair closely trimmed to a slight peak in the center along his scalp, and a pair of black auto-tinting glasses concealing his eyes. He has high cheekbones and the semi-sunken look standard among his race, though the natural handsomeness is marred slightly by a jagged two-pronged scar running from the corner of his left eye down to his jawline - a souvenir of his short term foray into the realm of Biodrones. He wears a simple outfit of ballistic fabrics and specialist gear necessary for his trade, concealed under a middle-class coat. Everything about him, from his styled hair to his neatly polished shoes speaks of efficiency and function, an air he affects to promote confidence in his clients.

Sheet to come
« Last Edit: <03-16-12/1347:32> by bangbangtequila »

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #54 on: <03-16-12/1354:24> »
Honestly, I think SURGE III is a little crazy. The amount of genetic Yahtzee involved in surviving such a change makes the odds of being a magician look like a coin toss. Of course a solid RP justification (You happened to crash your car in the middle of Howling Cayote's famous great ritual, sure. If you sneezed on some pixie dust one day, I wouldn't bite...)

Honestly, SURGE didn't happen until the year of the comet, and different people expressed in different ways. I haven't heard of anyone dying from their SURGE transformation (and nothing in the character I created--and now am reworking a bit to get rid of Amnesia, though there will likely still be some portions she doesn't remember just not the entire past--that would be worse than the goblinization into troll that people went through and survived during the Awakening).
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bangbangtequila

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« Reply #55 on: <03-16-12/1412:44> »
Even so, you need a serious magical trigger to cause SURGE. As for death, the first two lines of the description of class III SURGE in the Runner's Companion, page 58:
"Class Three SURGE is categorized by the most severe and
radical mutations, sometimes leading to the death of the victim"

Also page 74, under SURGE in play -> Metamorphosis:
"There is a very real risk of death during the transformation
process (the metagenes responsible are damaged and mutated
DNA after all) and characters may require hospitalization for a
number of weeks following SURGE"

A quote from a character contained in Runner's Companion, page 58 again, by Traveller Jones:
"I got caught in a manastorm outside Sydney back in 2067. Suddenly,
the hacker hit the concrete and started convulsing, blood spitting
out of all her orifices, tissue stretching and rupturing, some seriously
crazy shit. We thought we’d stumbled on some bioweapon or
something. Fortunately for hackhead, the spellslinger tagged it as
SURGE before we got round to putting her out of her misery. I’d seen
Goblinization on the trid before, but, omae, this shit was freaky."

So you should write the incredibly traumatic and insanely life-altering event that is having your genetic fabric suddenly change itself and completely redesign your physiology within a few minutes into your past. It may even have caused Amnesia. Having it be "no big deal" spells out a "metagenic improvement sure is a great way to max my agility" line of thought, especially combined with the basically free magic resistance that is Astral Hazing and the joke of a penalty in Extravagant Eyes. I'm not trying to attack you, just pointing out that this is a pretty common min-max build.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #56 on: <03-16-12/1418:55> »
Even so, you need a serious magical trigger to cause SURGE. As for death, the first two lines of the description of class III SURGE in the Runner's Companion, page 58:
"Class Three SURGE is categorized by the most severe and
radical mutations, sometimes leading to the death of the victim"

Also page 74, under SURGE in play -> Metamorphosis:
"There is a very real risk of death during the transformation
process (the metagenes responsible are damaged and mutated
DNA after all) and characters may require hospitalization for a
number of weeks following SURGE"

A quote from a character contained in Runner's Companion, page 58 again, by Traveller Jones:
"I got caught in a manastorm outside Sydney back in 2067. Suddenly,
the hacker hit the concrete and started convulsing, blood spitting
out of all her orifices, tissue stretching and rupturing, some seriously
crazy shit. We thought we’d stumbled on some bioweapon or
something. Fortunately for hackhead, the spellslinger tagged it as
SURGE before we got round to putting her out of her misery. I’d seen
Goblinization on the trid before, but, omae, this shit was freaky."

So you should write the incredibly traumatic and insanely life-altering event that is having your genetic fabric suddenly change itself and completely redesign your physiology within a few minutes into your past. It may even have caused Amnesia. Having it be "no big deal" spells out a "metagenic improvement sure is a great way to max my agility" line of thought, especially combined with the basically free magic resistance that is Astral Hazing and the joke of a penalty in Extravagant Eyes. I'm not trying to attack you, just pointing out that this is a pretty common min-max build.

Or they just SURGEd when the comet passed by. Anyone old enough to be running in the current timeline would have been alive then. As to Astral Hazing, the way I view it, would be that buff and healing spells cast on me would be fubared while offensive spells against me would inexplicably be more powerful. With Extravagant Eyes, well, the whole point of it is that someone with it is more identifiable--the Extravagant Eyes being the distinctive part of the automatic Distinctive Style.
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Thvor

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« Reply #57 on: <03-16-12/1446:25> »
Okay, finally, final attempt at posting a character sheet.

[spoiler]
...
== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Past)
Astral Hazing (non-Awakened)
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Extravagant Eyes
Judas
Low-Light Vision
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Mood Hair
Records on File (Tir Na Nog)
Restricted Gear (Rating 3)
SINner (Standard) (Siobhan Beckman)
...
[/spoiler]

Pardon my jumping in--I'm trying to learn from watching--but I don't think these qualities work, unless I'm missing something. Class III SURGE requires at least 30 BP of positive metagenetic qualities and 15 negative; you've got the negatives, but the only positive is the agility improvement, leaving you 10 BP shy. Also, you've got 35 BP of non-metagenetic negative qualities, and 20 BP of metegenetic ones; since you've got more than the 15 required by the SURGE, those extra 5 count towards the 35 BP cap.

As I read the rules, I think you need to spend at least 10 more BP on positive metagenetics, and you're over-budget on your negatives.

-Thvor

I did just notice that, never worked with surge characters yet still reading on the rules. That being said All4BigGuns, you need to rework that part of your sheet.

Reading the Changeling section of Runner's Companion more thoroughly, I discovered that while yes, I do need to rework to get more positive metagenetics. The negatives are within the rules.  The base SURGE quality itself is stated to count toward the limit of positives, but the metagenetics it unlocks are implicitly stated to not count toward the limit.

Quote
Depending on the level taken, the character must choose a
number of Positive and Negative Metagenetic qualities (p. 110),
though gamemasters may chose to take on Negative Metagenetic
qualitiy selection to ensure balance. Metagenetic qualities chosen
in this fashion do not count toward the 35 BP cap on qualities,
as
long as they remain within the totals defined by the Changeling
quality. If the player chooses Metagenetic qualities with a total BP
value greater than the given thresholds, the excess cost or bonus
BP count toward the character’s normal limits for qualities.

SURGE III gives you 15 BP of "free" negative metagenetic qualities (in that they don't count towards the 35 BP cap), but anything over 15 counts against the cap (read the last sentence of the section you quoted). You've got 20 BP of negative metagenetics (Astral Hazing is 10, while Extravagant Eyes and Mood Hair are both 5), which means that 5 of those BP count towards your cap. Amnesia (10), Judas (10), Records on File (10), and SINner (5) add up to 35, so you're 5 BP over the limit.

-Thvor
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #58 on: <03-16-12/1508:21> »
Okay, finally, final attempt at posting a character sheet.

[spoiler]
...
== Qualities ==
Amnesia (Past)
Astral Hazing (non-Awakened)
Changeling (Class III SURGE)
Distinctive Style
Extravagant Eyes
Judas
Low-Light Vision
Metagenetic Improvement (AGI)
Mood Hair
Records on File (Tir Na Nog)
Restricted Gear (Rating 3)
SINner (Standard) (Siobhan Beckman)
...
[/spoiler]

Pardon my jumping in--I'm trying to learn from watching--but I don't think these qualities work, unless I'm missing something. Class III SURGE requires at least 30 BP of positive metagenetic qualities and 15 negative; you've got the negatives, but the only positive is the agility improvement, leaving you 10 BP shy. Also, you've got 35 BP of non-metagenetic negative qualities, and 20 BP of metegenetic ones; since you've got more than the 15 required by the SURGE, those extra 5 count towards the 35 BP cap.

As I read the rules, I think you need to spend at least 10 more BP on positive metagenetics, and you're over-budget on your negatives.

-Thvor

I did just notice that, never worked with surge characters yet still reading on the rules. That being said All4BigGuns, you need to rework that part of your sheet.

Reading the Changeling section of Runner's Companion more thoroughly, I discovered that while yes, I do need to rework to get more positive metagenetics. The negatives are within the rules.  The base SURGE quality itself is stated to count toward the limit of positives, but the metagenetics it unlocks are implicitly stated to not count toward the limit.

Quote
Depending on the level taken, the character must choose a
number of Positive and Negative Metagenetic qualities (p. 110),
though gamemasters may chose to take on Negative Metagenetic
qualitiy selection to ensure balance. Metagenetic qualities chosen
in this fashion do not count toward the 35 BP cap on qualities,
as
long as they remain within the totals defined by the Changeling
quality. If the player chooses Metagenetic qualities with a total BP
value greater than the given thresholds, the excess cost or bonus
BP count toward the character’s normal limits for qualities.

SURGE III gives you 15 BP of "free" negative metagenetic qualities (in that they don't count towards the 35 BP cap), but anything over 15 counts against the cap (read the last sentence of the section you quoted). You've got 20 BP of negative metagenetics (Astral Hazing is 10, while Extravagant Eyes and Mood Hair are both 5), which means that 5 of those BP count towards your cap. Amnesia (10), Judas (10), Records on File (10), and SINner (5) add up to 35, so you're 5 BP over the limit.

-Thvor
Moot anyway. I'm reworking to pull the Amnesia anyway. By the way, are you in the game, or are you just butting in on something that has nothing to do with you?
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Thvor

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« Reply #59 on: <03-16-12/1531:08> »
Moot anyway. I'm reworking to pull the Amnesia anyway. By the way, are you in the game, or are you just butting in on something that has nothing to do with you?

I'm thinking of joining, but haven't settled on a character concept yet. But as I said in my first post, I am trying to learn by watching those with (far) more experience than I have, and saw something which didn't match my understanding of the rules.

-Thvor
Colors: Speech Thoughts Matrix Astral

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