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Spellcasting and Astral Hazing

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Mirikon

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« Reply #30 on: <01-20-12/2256:41> »
*thwap*

He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.
Maybe it gets him to read and try to understand the relevant rules before commenting next time, thats always a worthy goal to drive people toward 8)
If that was your goal, the best way to do it is to take them aside in private and talk about it. The whole public shaming thing does little to encourage a sense of community. Wyrm and I disagree on several points, on several issues, but you don't see me trying to do those kinds of things to him, do you? And he certainly hasn't done the same to me. Besides making you a better member of the community, people are less likely to take advice from someone who goes out of their way to rub their nose in it. It is the difference between teaching, and pointing and laughing at people who screw up until they no longer screw up.
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JustADude

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« Reply #31 on: <01-21-12/0023:10> »
*thwap*

He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.
Maybe it gets him to read and try to understand the relevant rules before commenting next time, thats always a worthy goal to drive people toward 8)

Apparently, I'm a horrible, horrible person for not realizing I'd missed part of the BGC rules before anyone ever pointed it out to me.

Oh, wait, if I'd done that, I wouldn't have missed it in the first place.

Misunderstanding something isn't the same as not understanding it at all, alright? I'm not perfect, and I make plenty of mistakes, but I try to at least know what color my socks are before I stick my foot in my mouth.
« Last Edit: <01-21-12/0034:21> by JustADude »
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The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #32 on: <01-21-12/0057:33> »
Red.  No, blue!  Waaaaaaauuuuuuuggghh!!

Pananagutan & End/Line

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JustADude

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« Reply #33 on: <01-21-12/0213:13> »
Red.  No, blue!  Waaaaaaauuuuuuuggghh!!

Ekke Ekke Ekke Ekke Ptangya Ziiinnggggggg Ni!


EDIT: If you don't get it, you haven't watched Holy Grail enough.
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Mäx

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« Reply #34 on: <01-21-12/0403:00> »
Apparently, I'm a horrible, horrible person for not realizing I'd missed part of the BGC rules before anyone ever pointed it out to me.
Can you honestly say that you went and re-read the BGC rules after mine or lethes post?
Both of witch at least heavily implied you had missed something.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

JustADude

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« Reply #35 on: <01-21-12/0520:47> »
Apparently, I'm a horrible, horrible person for not realizing I'd missed part of the BGC rules before anyone ever pointed it out to me.
Can you honestly say that you went and re-read the BGC rules after mine or lethes post?
Both of witch at least heavily implied you had missed something.

Obviously not, otherwise why would I have waited until Zilfer said something to speak up? Up until then, I had thought Lethe was simply arguing an unfounded alternate interpretation.

And, ya know what, it's still not a 100% fuck-up on my part because, while the "reduced Force" interpretation does have a bit more weight behind it thanks to the text in question, SM p118 only talks about preexisting spells that are being sustained, anchored, or quickened. I was willing to concede the point because, honestly, treating an active spell cast into the BG count the same way makes sense, but it's not an explicit rule on the topic.

Frankly, you sound like like a smug, arrogant, self-important little twit that's trying to gloat, so how about you quit trying to come off as some perfect paragon of human virtue and just let the subject drop?

And trust me, I'm having to strongly resist using language a lot stronger than 'twit'. The kind of language that would make Fastjack have to redact my post.
« Last Edit: <01-21-12/0611:08> by JustADude »
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
― Albert Einstein

"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
― Me

Mäx

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« Reply #36 on: <01-21-12/0702:11> »
Frankly, you sound like like a smug, arrogant, self-important little twit that's trying to gloat, so how about you quit trying to come off as some perfect paragon of human virtue and just let the subject drop?
How is it arrogant to expect people to have the common decency to check that they know what their talking about before claiming others are wrong or accusing them of double-talking sophistry. :o
To me thats just part of the basic forum etiquette.
« Last Edit: <01-21-12/0706:06> by Mäx »
"An it harm none, do what you will"

JustADude

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« Reply #37 on: <01-21-12/0808:12> »
Frankly, you sound like like a smug, arrogant, self-important little twit that's trying to gloat, so how about you quit trying to come off as some perfect paragon of human virtue and just let the subject drop?
How is it arrogant to expect people to have the common decency to check that they know what their talking about before claiming others are wrong or accusing them of double-talking sophistry. :o
To me thats just part of the basic forum etiquette.

Ah, and more of the self-righteous indignation. Wonderful.

And, since you're either every bit as ignorant as you've accused me of being or just acting that way so you can keep pretending you're a perfect, special little snowflake, I'll lay out for you exactly why I was justified in making that accusation.

The statement I was remarking on was Lethe's assertion that Astral Hazing does not specify how the spells are affected, which it, in fact, does. That is, they are treated as if being cast into a Rating -4 Background Count. The rules in Street Magic may be unclear on the exact effect of an active casting heading into a Background Count, but that is not due to any lack of clarity on the part of Astral Hazing. Saying otherwise because it requires a small level of inference to make the connection between the incoming spells and the character's BCG is sophistry, pure and simple,

Said comment about a lack of a solid definition was then immediately followed by an assertion that Lethe's own interpretation of the situation (i.e. that spells being actively cast into the Background Count are treated the same as a sustained spell being walked in) is the definitive answer to the problem. Such a juxtaposition of positions is double-talk in the political sense... although I will admit 'hypocrisy' may have been a better choice of words.

...

Really though, now that I've been thinking on it a while, I honestly don't see why the way an existing Mana-construct like a Ward is altered by a Background Count has any sort of definitive bearing on active casting. My original assertion, that any spell cast on the character with Astral Hazing counts as if the caster were in a Rating 4 Domain, also has validity, since a mystical link has to be established to the target before the spell can be enacted. With Hazing, the far end of the link is experiencing interference from the Domain similar to what the Magician would have to deal with the interference if they were standing in the Domain and the target were in a Zero Background area, thus creating the same result.

Of course there's also Options 3 and 4, given that Astral Hazing is a Negative Quality, which is that the Aspect of the Rating 4 Domain actually gives a 4 point boost to incoming magic designed to harm the character, either in the form of a  Magic boost to the caster or by upping the final effect by 4 Force.

I should thank you for the gloating. If you hadn't pissed me off by trying to kick me when I was down and got me looking things over again I might have actually walked away from this thinking I was truly in the wrong, instead of realizing that there are, in fact, several equally valid ways to interpret Astral Hazing.
« Last Edit: <01-21-12/0834:34> by JustADude »
“What is right is not always popular and what is popular is not always right.”
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"Being average just means that half of everyone you meet is better than you."
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Mäx

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« Reply #38 on: <01-21-12/0857:02> »
And now we're getting somewhere ;)
Really though, now that I've been thinking on it a while, I honestly don't see why the way an existing Mana-construct like a Ward is altered by a Background Count has any sort of definitive bearing on active casting. My original assertion, that any spell cast on the character with Astral Hazing counts as if the caster were in a Rating 4 Domain, also has validity, since a mystical link has to be established to the target before the spell can be enacted. With Hazing, the far end of the link is experiencing interference from the Domain similar to what the Magician would have to deal with the interference if they were standing in the Domain and the target were in a Zero Background area, thus creating the same result.
IMO the mana spells use to cause their effect originates from the casters and travels down the mystic link to the target(The descriptions of combat spell types especially give this image), so i dont see any reason for the target areas BC to affect casters magic attribute.
Also i think this would make BC in general and Astral Hazing in particular, a way too good a protection from magic.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Zilfer

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« Reply #39 on: <01-21-12/1457:42> »
And now we're getting somewhere ;)
Really though, now that I've been thinking on it a while, I honestly don't see why the way an existing Mana-construct like a Ward is altered by a Background Count has any sort of definitive bearing on active casting. My original assertion, that any spell cast on the character with Astral Hazing counts as if the caster were in a Rating 4 Domain, also has validity, since a mystical link has to be established to the target before the spell can be enacted. With Hazing, the far end of the link is experiencing interference from the Domain similar to what the Magician would have to deal with the interference if they were standing in the Domain and the target were in a Zero Background area, thus creating the same result.

IMO the mana spells use to cause their effect originates from the casters and travels down the mystic link to the target(The descriptions of combat spell types especially give this image), so i dont see any reason for the target areas BC to affect casters magic attribute.
Also i think this would make BC in general and Astral Hazing in particular, a way too good a protection from magic.

Which I mention again, Astral Hazing is supposed to be a metagenic negative qualty. Yes I understand it makes you a walking torch, but it's more like a walking torch of.... don't mess*(substituted) with me kind of walking torch. I think it kind of gives more than it takes. Sure some AAA's probably want to catpure you, but it probably won't be easy, and you definately will make it more costly than it's worth. (if you don't they'll keep comin right?) :D



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JustADude

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« Reply #40 on: <01-21-12/1636:38> »
IMO the mana spells use to cause their effect originates from the casters and travels down the mystic link to the target(The descriptions of combat spell types especially give this image), so i dont see any reason for the target areas BC to affect casters magic attribute.
Also i think this would make BC in general and Astral Hazing in particular, a way too good a protection from magic.

Look at it like a wireless connection, or better yet a Radar signal... something that needs feedback from the target to work properly

In that analogy, Ebbs would be the equivalent of having a weak power supply, browning out your equipment and forcing you to boost the gain higher to get the same signal, while Domains cause Background Count via all sorts of extra "static," making it hard to maintain signal coherence... again, causing you to have to boost the gain, but via a very different method.

The way I see it, Domains act like an Area Jammer (Masking, of course acts like Signature Reduction ;) ) in that it interferes with being able to get a "Sensor Lock" on the target, with your Magic Rating replacing Sensor Rating in the equation. And, of course, a Jammer works equally well no matter if it's placed at the sender or the receiver of the transmission.

Which I mention again, Astral Hazing is supposed to be a metagenic negative qualty. Yes I understand it makes you a walking torch, but it's more like a walking torch of.... don't mess*(substituted) with me kind of walking torch. I think it kind of gives more than it takes. Sure some AAA's probably want to catpure you, but it probably won't be easy, and you definately will make it more costly than it's worth. (if you don't they'll keep comin right?) :D

Right. Which is probably why it's not allowed in Missions, since the worst repercussions aren't going to ever show up in a generically scripted, mass-consumption scenario. Not saying the Missions aren't fun, or well-done, just that they're not designed to include the more "out there" possibilities.

But, like I said, an easy way to solve the whole "Positive Quality That Gives You Build-Points" angle would be to have the Domain's Aspect boost incoming whammies... but then it'd be a bit under-priced, considering any spell cast against you would be able to wipe the floor with you.
« Last Edit: <01-21-12/2352:30> by JustADude »
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Zilfer

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« Reply #41 on: <01-23-12/1213:53> »
From Mageslayer.... to Magephobic.... XD
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

The Wyrm Ouroboros

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« Reply #42 on: <01-23-12/1908:53> »
Well, the damn thing is supposed to be a negative instead of the positive people seem to be grabbing it as.  I can see non-friendly spells getting bonuses against the individual.  Since this applies to cyberzombies as well, how about 1 point of effect per 2 points of background count they generate/are in?
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Lethe

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« Reply #43 on: <01-24-12/0337:13> »
Yes, currently i don't see the necessary disadvantage in the quality. But a change in function should change the name as well. Astral Hazing is quite unambiguous. Suggestion:

Astral Sink
A character with this quality draws magic from his surroundings into him. Every spell cast near (5m radius) or onto him gets its Force reduced by 4, but also causes 2S unresisted damage.

Chrona

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« Reply #44 on: <01-24-12/1728:28> »
Astral hazing in a pistol forum? What a jungle! :P Is there a way to "unsubscribe" to a thread? Or rename one? Haha.
Good point. Topic has been split.

For a while I was going "I didn't start a topic...??"