[Mäx]

Actually, Astral Hazing puts the character in the middle of a -4 Background Count that applies to any spells being cast on him, which reduces your effective Magic for the spell, not the spell's Force.

It's more like this:

F14 - 8 = F6 / 2 = F3

Only if your standing so close to him that your actually casting the spell inside the BC, but then it's not a force 14 spell in the first place(well unless you have magic 11 to start with)

[JustADude]

Only if your standing so close to him that your actually casting the spell inside the BC, but then it's not a force 14 spell in the first place(well unless you have magic 11 to start with)

Incorrect. Allow me to quote the writeup of Astral Hazing from Runner's Companion, p116:

Astral Hazing
Bonus: 10 BP (for non-Awakened characters),
           15 BP (for Awakened characters)
A character with this quality has expressed metagenes that somehow catalyse and feed on the character’s darker emotions and negative feelings, disturbing the character’s aura and any ambient mana in her vicinity. For reasons not yet understood, the character becomes an aspected domain in her own right and taints astral space around her wherever she goes; a generator of tainted astral background count (similar to a cyberzombie).
This astral haze affects all attempts to cast magic on, at, or in the vicinity of the character. Whatever the ambient mana conditions are, the character always stands at the heart of a Rating 4 background count (see p. 117, Street Magic) that extends a number of meters from her body equal to her Essence; this background count also impairs her own actions if the character is Awakened. If she remains in one place for long, the background count expands by one meter in every direction every two or three hours (at the gamemaster’s discretion).

Emphasis is, of course, mine.

According to the text, it doesn't matter if you're inside or not. The haze is apparently not the same as a normal Domain background count, in that it will disrupt all magic targeting the character generating the Haze, whether the origin of the spell is inside the zone or not.

[Lethe]

It says affects, but not really how. I would still agree with Zilfer though.
SM states only that the magician loses magic while in BC. Pre-existing spirits, spells, foci that go into the BC will get reduced by BC. Literally the example there is only for sustained spells taken into BC, but same should work for spells cast from outside into BC, they are kinda preexisting and taken into as well. This also doesn't conflict with your "affects all attempts to cast magic on" quote, as it clearly gets affected.. like in normal BC.

[JustADude]

It says affects, but not really how. I would still agree with Zilfer though.
SM states only that the magician loses magic while in BC. Pre-existing spirits, spells, foci that go into the BC will get reduced by BC. Literally the example there is only for sustained spells taken into BC, but same should work for spells cast from outside into BC, they are kinda preexisting and taken into as well. This also doesn't conflict with your "affects all attempts to cast magic on" quote, as it clearly gets affected.. like in normal BC.

Dude, seriously, are you kidding me? That's one of the cheesiest bits of double-talking sophistry I've ever heard. It damn well does state how it affects the attempts, in the very next sentence. The attempts are treated as being in a 4-point Background Count.

Besides, why the hell would they feel the need to specify anything about how the Background Count generated by Astral Haze works if its behavior was identical to a normal Mana Ebb or Domain with the same count?

And, finally, yes your interpretation bloody well does conflict, because right after the word "on" is the word "AT". Don't even try to tell me that isn't meant to cover indirect combat spells, since those are about the only single-target spells where "on" doesn't apply.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

So far as I can tell, he was agreeing with you...

[JustADude]

So far as I can tell, he was agreeing with you...

As near as I can translate what he said, because honestly I had a hard time parsing his sentence structures, he was agreeing with Zilfer, who was calling for a -4 reduction, applying the BC against the Force of the spell directly, rather than reducing the mage's Magic by 4 before the Force is even set.

[Lethe]

It damn well does state how it affects the attempts, in the very next sentence. The attempts are treated as being in a 4-point Background Count.

Not really. Not the "attempts" are treated as being in a R4BC, but the character with astral hazing. It only states that the BC has an effect, if a spell is cast on/at that character, it doesn't state what effect.

A character not in a BC area himself never gets a magic reduction, not even if he targets his spell there. It doesn't say so in the Astral Haze description and it doesn't say so in the BC description.

Besides, why the hell would they feel the need to specify anything about how the Background Count generated by Astral Haze works if its behavior was identical to a normal Mana Ebb or Domain with the same count?

1. The behaviour is identical to Mana Ebb or Domain only for the astral haze character himself or for people very close to him, so they are still in that BC area he creates. People standing a few meters away are not influenced by it. Why should they?

2. SM says that every magical thing (spell,focus,spirit) that enters a BC gets its force reduced by BC rating.

We have those two possible effects considering BC. Astral hazing only says, the attempt to cast magic on/at/near the specific character is affected, meaning only when the spell enters the BC.  Couldn't that effect not be the one described in SM? Why would you want to reduce the casting magicians magic by the BC rating as if he stands in the BC, when he actually is not.

And, finally, yes your interpretation bloody well does conflict, because right after the word "on" is the word "AT". Don't even try to tell me that isn't meant to cover indirect combat spells, since those are about the only single-target spells where "on" doesn't apply.

Of course indirect combat spells get reduced as well, all spells that enter the BC.
But if there is an indirect area combat spell cast to outside of the BC, while the astral haze character is still in range of the spells effect(only the physical part), then it would not reduce the force of the spell.

[FastJack]

Astral hazing in a pistol forum? What a jungle! Is there a way to "unsubscribe" to a thread? Or rename one? Haha.

Good point. Topic has been split.

[Zilfer]

Thanks, FastJack. ~ My character Bit-split.

(o.O' heh no pun intended)


Anyways, If your example is correct JustADude, does that mean if i cast a Lightning ball F14 it get the -8 to even the people outside of it? That's what it sounds like your saying that I might as well be standing in the Background Count if my magic so much as touches the thing.(you do know this is a negative quality right? It's got enough going for it to have me question whether it truly is that negative....)

I'm failling to see where your emphasis matters.... if your casting "on the person" obviously your casting through the BC right? Which is -4..... in the description..... I can cast Control thoughts "on" my character it's not going to lower my magic unless i'm in his background count of E(ssence) meters away from his body. Anything casted into a Background count only affects the force of the spell if your not in it correct? I don't see why my magic would be taking a hit.

The way I see it it's like this.

You can try and make a snowball in hell and throw it but your magic's not going to do too well becuase not enough mositure, you may not get a big ball for lack of it. (in my example this is a lack of mana in the area)

Next you can throw a snowball into hell, and while it will disolve faster once thrown into hell it's very easy to make a bigger snowball outside hell. It will melt fast but not as fast as the prior one. (normal mana being thrown into a BC)

Anyways that's just how i'm picturing it right now.

[JustADude]

I'm failling to see where your emphasis matters.... if your casting "on the person" obviously your casting through the BC right? Which is -4..... in the description..... I can cast Control thoughts "on" my character it's not going to lower my magic unless i'm in his background count of E(ssence) meters away from his body. Anything casted into a Background count only affects the force of the spell if your not in it correct? I don't see why my magic would be taking a hit.

*facepalm*

Okay, so BCs already have a known effect on magic going into them, which drops the force of the spell by -4?

I guess I was just not understanding what Lethe was trying to say that first time. My bad.

[Zilfer]

I'm failling to see where your emphasis matters.... if your casting "on the person" obviously your casting through the BC right? Which is -4..... in the description..... I can cast Control thoughts "on" my character it's not going to lower my magic unless i'm in his background count of E(ssence) meters away from his body. Anything casted into a Background count only affects the force of the spell if your not in it correct? I don't see why my magic would be taking a hit.

*facepalm*

Okay, so BCs already have a known effect on magic going into them, which drops the force of the spell by -4?

I guess I was just not understanding what Lethe was trying to say that first time. My bad.

Yeah a Background count drops it by whatever number the background count. Astral Hazing the quality says you are sitting at a background out of 4 so casting into it is -4. Pretty sure that's how it goes, if not no worries I don't mind being corrected.

[Mäx]

*facepalm*

Okay, so BCs already have a known effect on magic going into them, which drops the force of the spell by -4?

Awesome that you finally realised that you dont actually have any idea how background count works.
Good think you din't go around telling people they are wrong before realizing that, oh wait

[Mirikon]

*thwap*

He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.

[Mäx]

*thwap*

He admitted he was wrong. No need to rub salt in the wound.

Maybe it gets him to read and try to understand the relevant rules before commenting next time, thats always a worthy goal to drive people toward

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

And people give me sh!t for being an asshole.