NEWS

The current situation with Dragons

  • 275 Replies
  • 60029 Views

Mirikon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8985
  • "Everybody lies." --House
« Reply #225 on: <05-19-12/1024:26> »
Will we hear any more about Feurschwinge and Kaltenstein?
Greataxe - Apply directly to source of problem, repeat as needed.

My Characters

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #226 on: <05-20-12/0640:55> »
I have had an ass full of dragons, but that's because in writing Clutch I've managed to crawl up my own ass getting lost in the minutiae of dragons and Shadowrun in general. Nothing like sitting down to work on a draft and then realizing several hours later that I haven't touched Word but I have six PDFs open. And that's not even accounting for the days I spent looking up info on something that I didn't even realize I could spend days reading and thinking about.

Boy, do I know what you're talking about there.  I wonder if Catalyst would pay to have someone thoroughly organize the information ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Longshot23

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 941
« Reply #227 on: <05-20-12/1110:27> »
I have had an ass full of dragons, but that's because in writing Clutch I've managed to crawl up my own ass getting lost in the minutiae of dragons and Shadowrun in general. Nothing like sitting down to work on a draft and then realizing several hours later that I haven't touched Word but I have six PDFs open. And that's not even accounting for the days I spent looking up info on something that I didn't even realize I could spend days reading and thinking about.

Boy, do I know what you're talking about there.  I wonder if Catalyst would pay to have someone thoroughly organize the information ...

Do you mean build on FastJack's (forum) efforts?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #228 on: <05-20-12/1607:28> »
Something a bit more extensive, actually.  An index file with links, if it's possible to link to a specific spot in a PDF.  On virtually everything one could possibly want.  Need to know Buttercup's personal aide's name?  Got it.  Every reference to Feuerschwinge, overt or impled?  Got it.  Etc. etc. etc.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

beowulf_of_wa

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 752
  • just say no to rotary assault cannons and bubba.
« Reply #229 on: <05-20-12/1627:14> »
so it'd be "Wyrm's exhaustive concordance of all things Shadowrun" ?
Carpe Noctem (seize the night)
Carpe per Diem (seize the pay), Carpe Dentum (seize the teeth), Carpe Denim (seize the pants)
Carpe Panem (seize the bread/capital)

no, i won't "just get over it."

NERPS!! for idiocy! NERPS!! for the minty fresh feeling! NERPS!! for gods! NERPS!! for guard duty!

Crimsondude

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3071
« Reply #230 on: <05-20-12/1632:40> »
There is the Shadowrun wiki at Wikia. You could just work on that.
« Last Edit: <05-20-12/1637:45> by James Meiers »

beowulf_of_wa

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 752
  • just say no to rotary assault cannons and bubba.
« Reply #231 on: <05-20-12/1639:08> »
or better yet, work to improve it!!
Carpe Noctem (seize the night)
Carpe per Diem (seize the pay), Carpe Dentum (seize the teeth), Carpe Denim (seize the pants)
Carpe Panem (seize the bread/capital)

no, i won't "just get over it."

NERPS!! for idiocy! NERPS!! for the minty fresh feeling! NERPS!! for gods! NERPS!! for guard duty!

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #232 on: <05-21-12/0134:28> »
I'd rather not.  There's a qualitative difference between linking directly to the official writing in question and having somewhere that 'just anybody' can throw something in, whether it's accurate or not.  Ideally, it would also be an assist for freelancers and developers in helping everyone keep up with who is doing what to whom.  "Fastjack can't be in Bangladesh in November!!  I just sent him in for upgrades in late October!!"
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

CanRay

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Mr. Johnson
  • ***
  • Posts: 11060
  • Spouter of Random Words
    • CanRay's Artistic Work
« Reply #233 on: <05-21-12/0203:17> »
Does anyone know where FastJack is, actually?

...

Oh, you're talking about the one in the game.  Damnit, now I had to find our similarly-named Mod and Smite him again!
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

Cranstonvm

  • *
  • Chummer
  • **
  • Posts: 135
  • Dragons everywhere!!!
« Reply #234 on: <05-21-12/1837:38> »
Something a bit more extensive, actually.  An index file with links, if it's possible to link to a specific spot in a PDF.  On virtually everything one could possibly want.  Need to know Buttercup's personal aide's name?  Got it.  Every reference to Feuerschwinge, overt or impled?  Got it.  Etc. etc. etc.

The wiki layout might work for what you want, so if you limit who can add/edit (say the people who write and plan for the game and trusted lackeys) should deal with the accuracy issue you mentioned. Possibly let anyone add but needs to be approved by experts before it gets posted also deals with accuracy.
Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

International Dieselpunk day November 12th http://www.dieselpunks.org/ for more information!

Wakshaani

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2186
« Reply #235 on: <05-21-12/2227:57> »
I don't think Fastjack's physical location has ever been revealed in a book. Im my head (Totally non-official!), I always put him in Seattle, since I think he's in the Renraku Acrology there when he's used in the Decker example back in the first ed book. Don't quote me on that since it's been a decade since I've read it, but, but I *think* that's where.

By the time second edition rolled around, I figured he was living the Buffet (Jimmy that is) lifestyle, living on a boat on the ocean, just drifting around and using a sat uplink. Of course, there are also people who think he's in Detroit, sitting in the CEO's office chair, so. :)

Longshot23

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 941
« Reply #236 on: <05-22-12/0709:18> »
Back to dragons:  what's the likelihood of it being Hestaby vs Sirrurg, rather than Hestaby vs Lofwyr?

Wakshaani

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 2186
« Reply #237 on: <05-22-12/0839:08> »
We already have Hestaby vs Lofwyr. Since that's a provable fact by observation (See also: Hestaby attacks S-K HQ in the middle east), and your math requires an Either/Or statement, it makes it resolve at 0.

However!

If you meant to say "What if the story becomes Hestaby vs Sirrug more than Hestaby vs Lofwyr", well, that's valid. The odds here are lower, simplydue to the status of the players in the conflict. To draw a parallel, let's grab Batman, because, hey, everybody likes Batman.

Now, you have a chance to see a long arc, say twelve issues, and entire year of publication, and you want a heavy hitting badguy to take the role opposite Batman. Clearly, your go-to guy is the Joker. It should be played out, but when people see Batman vs the Joker, they can't give you money fast enough.

But you think Joker's played out. You want to go with someone else, so you look through the list of Bat-Foes. Not Two-Face, not teh Riddler, not the Penguin, CLEARLy not Catwoman, not Mr Freeze ... the bench is deep, but he further down you do, the more obscure you get. Do you really want to do a 12 issue run of Batman vs Killer Croc, much less Batman vs the Penny Plunderer? Now, I'm not saying you can't make an epic tale of PP wanting to get his greatest treasure back from teh Batcave, but, it's gonna be awful hard to pitch to the editor and when people see it on a store shelf, they go, "Oh cool! Batman against ... The Penny Plunderer? Who the heck is that? Stupid comics, I want the Joker!"

It's not to say that it can't be done, of course. The Long Halloween gives us Hangman, a new character just for that arc. Knightful introduced Bane, while the Demon's Head introduced Ra's al Ghoul. Note that these are iontroduced a new guy, rather than dug a C-lister and put them on the front line? There's a reason for that.

Hestaby vs Lofwyr is where battle lines are drawn. That's the main event. If you were told that you were getting Hulk Hogan vs the Ultimate Warrior, but instead got Hulk Hogan vs Barry Horowitz, would you be happy? Probably not.

Sirrug's story and Hestaby's got linked as soon as she came out on national... heck ... INTERNATIONAL TV and called him out. What this really did is tell the dragons of teh world, in no uncertain terms, that the Old Ways no longer applied, that she was willing to put dragons under the rule of squishy little short-lived blips. That's teh part that doesn't sit well with the old guard, and that's why battle lines are being drawn. No one's stepping up to defend Sirrug you might notice, they're lining up to defend the old ways and combat *Hestaby*. Even she isn't directly going after Sirrug, so much as saying "Hey mortal authorities, you have my permission to go arrest him. Uhm. Good luck with that, I'll be over here."

TL; DR: Sirrug was the fuse, Lofwyr's the explosion.

Patrick Goodman

  • *
  • Errata Team
  • Ace Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2100
  • Fixing the fixless since 2016
    • Azziewatch
« Reply #238 on: <05-22-12/1041:09> »
TL;DQ. :) I say the following as a dragon fanboy, someone who treats them as pretty damn powerful and capable of mega-awesomeness. James Meiers hates me for this; dragons can be special snowflakes in my hand sometimes. There's a reason I didn't submit for Clutch of Dragons; I question my own objectivity sometimes.

That said:
TL; DR: Sirrug was the fuse, Lofwyr's the explosion.
Interesting analysis, Wak, though I'm not sure it's completely correct. I think Sirrurg has a boatload of enemies both ephemeral (to use Dunkelzahn's terminology) and draconic. While I think you're right, that the main event is going to boil down to Hestaby v Lofwyr, I think just labeling Sirrurg as the fuse, the catalyst that gets this show going, is missing the mark.

The dragons, especially the greats (Goldensnout included), know that while they're enormously powerful beings with the ability to plan long-term (and by that, I mean centuries down the road), they're not unstoppable. If the humans wanted to, and had the political will, a dragon could be pretty handily taken out (though the human force would suffer heavy losses). It might give them ideas, though; they can't have the humans getting ideas.

So you've got Sirrurg out there, making even the dragons look bad...and giving the humans ideas. I can easily see Aden, for instance, finally getting pissed off enough to call him out. "Look, fella, it's time to end this. You're making me look bad!" For "Aden" you could insert any number of greats.

So yeah, Hestaby v Lofwyr is the main event, and I can see a lot of carnage coming out of that over the next few decades. But Sirrurg...Sirrurg's a problem. Because if the humans take him out...and they could, if they could get their collective act together...that opens the door to humans getting the will to do it to someone else. And they can't have that.
Former Shadowrun Errata Coordinator

Longshot23

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 941
« Reply #239 on: <05-22-12/1100:32> »
Same theory as the Cold War-era US and USSR laying the smackdown on folks (nominally onside) who didn't toe their respective lines?

I fully accept that the simmering GD war is part of a long game, or more than one.