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Data Search & Legwork

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Wasabi

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« Reply #15 on: (06:40:27/03-24-11) »
KarmaInferno, you rock sir. *golfclap*
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Redwulfe

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« Reply #16 on: (10:46:36/03-30-11) »
I have to disagree, not that KarmaInferno rocks that fact is obvious, but to the fact that Data search can be used to replace your legwork. simply because of human nature. If someone was shot in my ally, and i saw it, and it was perpetrated by local gang members that are know to cause trouble, even kill others, in my neighbor hood, I would never think that it would be wise to blog about it. In fact if that is the type of neighborhood I live in I would know better than to open myself up to getting shot. "Material witness found dead, news at 11:00." Shadowrun is even more dangerousness and thee are things that can not be found on the matrix. If the world you live in is a world that has such easy access to information then one camera shot and the next thing you know every thing about you would easily be found. Shadowrunner could not exist in this type of a world. They need anonymity to survive and everything that is done is on the matrix would mean that anyone could find you at any time as well. why be in a business that you are guaranteed to get killed or arrested in.

Red
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #17 on: (00:40:50/03-31-11) »
You make the assumption that people are smart and don't do foolish things.

That is manifestly incorrect.

Just take a look at how many people just scatter their personal information all over the damn internet without even thinking about it. Even after being warned repeatedly not to do so.

Hell, I have to stop my dad, who has been in the computer industry for decades, from clicking on strange interweb pop-ups.

Now, I might limit the amount and type of legwork obtainable with just Data Search, but they should be able to get some stuff.

Then I will make my evil GM laugh as their incomplete Data Search legwork leads them to completely wrong conclusions about their current run and results in all sort of trouble for them.

I almost never tell my players, "No, you can't do that". They have, however, learned that some stuff carries consequences, and if the GM is smiling it's already too late.



-k
« Last Edit: (00:44:03/03-31-11) by KarmaInferno »

Redwulfe

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« Reply #18 on: (12:50:52/03-31-11) »
Actually I am making the assumption that people in dangerous situations are more paranoid than foolish.

Many a cop has seen neighborhoods clam up and not talk about a crime that has happened rather than face the consiquences for retribution from local gangs. This of course has become less and less over the years but it still happens on occasion. Add to this the fact that in the world of shadow run it is more dangerous and there are areas that the cops don't go at all, which are basically war zones and I think that this will happen more often.

Now I do be leave that in the modern day it is easy to find anything on the Internet, though somethings are still really hard to find, it does not mean that secrets are posted over the matrix in the shadow run world where those leaks are plugged up by killing the person who leaked it. That's why we have contacts that can get us information that you couldn't get by just looking the info up on the net.

Like contacts data search information should depend on where you search. I really liked the anatomy of a shadow run from the new toolkit. After the hacker could not pull up any info on the matrix on the marks hideout he did a search on a hackers website. He had the connection to make data search more useful.

I guess I don't have that many problems with data search becoming as good as others wish it to be, except in one glaring facet. If data search can get us every thing we need to know then information contacts become useless and there is no need to buy or pay them.


As an example, I had a game where we sat down to make characters together, as I often like for creating complementary characters, and one of the players wanted to play the face. He wanted to buy several contacts to be his information network so he could be really useful duringbthe legwork phase of the run. It was going to be his thing. Another player asked if it was alright to pick up data search for him self and I said sure. When we started playing the character with uber data search wished to be able to find all the info on everything using this secondary trick and completely overshadow the player that spent a lot of resource to build his information monger. My ruling is I would not allow data search in this fashion based on my comments above. That player was so upset he quit the game. I tried to point out that data search was still a us full skill and would allow him to use it to make team work bonuses to the info character, but he wanted to do the job of info monger on very cheap points and overshadow the contact character. I realize that the player was not in the cooperative spirit that I try to foster in the game and just let him go. We went on to have a lot of fun in the game.

I guess this one incident always colors my judgement of data search.

I feel that it has a place but contacts should not be overshadowed as research methods by it. To maintain this balance I do not let sensitive information to hit the matrix unless it is necessary to keep the story moving forward, and the party usually hears a news report about the leak ending up punished or dead, to keep the feel of a world that this would be the case.

Red
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Bull

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« Reply #19 on: (14:08:08/04-05-11) »
The discussion is good.  And a lot of good points are raised.

Generally, I leave it up to the author to decide the results of the legwork tests, though I may offer up suggestions.  I tell them to keep in mind that sometimes, not everything can be found online, especially more...  personal and private stuff.  But a lot of stuff can be, and sometimes all of it can be.  So we mix it up.

Some Missions groups may not have a face, and may have to rely on the Hacker to do all the Legwork via the Matrix.  As such, we don;t want to penalize that group too harshly.

Bull

John Shull

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« Reply #20 on: (08:16:34/04-10-11) »
It is really hard to have a rules structure for information gathering without it understanding that information gathering is itself a art and a science.  You pull everything the matrix has on someone you are looking at raw data. If you for some reason cannot get the net to coff it up on command your limited to the databases within your evil clutches.   You then apply your parameters and then much of it falls back except what is pertinent.  You talk to those connected and it gets trickier as you interview, cojole, interrogate, question, and negotiate information from people.  People have information subjective from their perspective and it depends on how you ask to what you might get.  My point is that the PC is most subjective part of the investagation as his clues gathered are only what he could gather from the situation he is in.  In Shadowrun you can customize your gun, your martial arts style, your car, and your lifestyle in nice neat ways.  Your investagator however doesn't really get that refinement.  He cannot be a lie detector like Lightman on the show Lie to Me, an astute criminal writer like Castle, or a fast talking criminal like Cafferty on White Collar.  Actually you can be characters like those but they are funneled into legwork senario in a clumsy way.  Rules just don't adequately cover what these people can do in working the art of detecting.  So you have a long talk with the DM and see what he can work out with you til the rules catch up.
Opportunities multiply as they are seized.  --Sun Tzu

Blond Goth Girl

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« Reply #21 on: (22:22:13/04-13-11) »
I actually made skills for the Lie to Me types and Sherlocks (seriously - I have a Sherlock skill group). 

For data search, my thing is it's out there.  Think of how much info is on the web now when you google.  Basically, you need a lot of successes to filter it out.  You can't read 7M docs.  I make players think - no matter what you roll a search for "brown beads," won't work.  Now when players think and data search with a search term like Catholic rosary beads cursed circa 1522 - they have automatically found the answer assuming that was the right question.  The dice roll is to determine in game time how quickly they got it.