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Data Search & Legwork

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A.A. Salati

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« on: (08:24:42/09-24-10) »
Cap legwork successes for Data Searches at 1 below maximum for anything not directly related to the Matrix.

If you can learn things about a company's IPO for example with 0-4 successes (with 4 giving you the best, most secretive tidbits), Data Search can only potentially yield 3 successes worth of info.

This increases dependence on contacts, makes contacts more valuable, and spreads out legwork so that a hacker with a huge Data Search dice pool doesn't become the sole source of research.  This also deals with players who want to take advantage of earning free contacts in game to spend those BP on other things and skip starting with contacts.
A.A. Salati

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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #1 on: (10:19:51/09-24-10) »
I will have to say that in all the many many tables of Shadowrun I've played, I've had maybe two that saw a character with a Data Search dice pool of more than 6.




-k

Bull

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« Reply #2 on: (15:13:22/09-24-10) »
OK, had this split off, as this is something that won;t be covered in teh FAQ specifically...

Have you seen the Legwork test charts from the Dawn of the Artifacts adventures?  They use a new style of Legwork chart.  They have Contacts hit results, and Data Search hit results.  Since Data Searches are both free, and you can do them automated via agents as an extended test very easily, but you're sifting through a lot more extraneous data, you need more hits via Data Search than you do via straight Contact work.  Plus, yes, it's possible that some of the highest level of data you cannot find in the Matrix.

We're copying that format for Season 4.  When possible, we use the official style and rules :)

Bull

Bull

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« Reply #3 on: (15:16:31/09-24-10) »
I will have to say that in all the many many tables of Shadowrun I've played, I've had maybe two that saw a character with a Data Search dice pool of more than 6.

-k

On the other hand, if you have a hacker of any sort in your group (And I've actually run with more hackers that full time faces), they're throwing 12+ dice.  It's not unusual for our current hacker to get 15+ hits on his extended data search tests.

And even with 6 dice, if you're rolling at the table, you're averaging 4-5 hits on the extended test, before you're out of dice.  Which is enough to cap out most Legwork tests in the current format (Which treats Data Search and normal Contact Legwork the same).

Bull

A.A. Salati

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« Reply #4 on: (15:21:13/09-24-10) »
Exactly, and I took this private.  It's an extended test so even a non-hacker can get a big dice pool.  Excellent news about the DOTA style.
A.A. Salati

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Deacon

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« Reply #5 on: (18:52:27/09-24-10) »
Not having run Missions beyond the first few adventures (SRM00), I didn't realize that background information obtainable through legwork and data search were the same thing.  Data search isn't going to find you the same kind of information, IMO; Data Search relies on said information being on the Matrix in the first place.  Sometimes personal information or eyewitness reports are going to be unobtainable through data searches -- but contacts might have that information passed to them from word-of-mouth.

And that's a major part of the cyberpunk milieu, the human factor in the stories about the high-tech and the dystopian setting.  Contacts aren't just there to provide a simple method for obtaining gear or information; they're people your character knows and trusts to some extent. 

I seem to recall writing information tables for separate contact types -- your street-level Fixer isn't going to know the same information that your corporate researcher or Lone Star beat officer will know.  They might even have different takes on the information; they're almost certainly going to have different viewpoints.

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etherial

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« Reply #6 on: (11:09:32/11-12-10) »
I didn't realize that background information obtainable through legwork and data search were the same thing.  Data search isn't going to find you the same kind of information, IMO; Data Search relies on said information being on the Matrix in the first place.  Sometimes personal information or eyewitness reports are going to be unobtainable through data searches -- but contacts might have that information passed to them from word-of-mouth.

Data Search is not separate from Legwork - Data Search is the primary form of Legwork. You search for information that has been posted about the topic as well as for people who seem to be holding back about the topic. Sure, your Contacts might know someone or something, but someone out there in the Matrix definitely knows something.

farothel

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« Reply #7 on: (14:55:10/03-21-11) »
Our GM goes with a 3:1 ratio.  3 hits on datasearch gives 1 hit on the legwork tables.  Also the sometimes limited amount of time you sometimes have for legwork can limit the amount of times you can roll to get those extra hits.
"Magic can turn a frog into a prince. Science can turn a frog into a Ph.D. and you still have the frog you started with." Terry Pratchett
"I will not yield to evil, unless she's cute"

Man Who Walks At Night

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« Reply #8 on: (16:23:09/03-21-11) »
Data Search is not separate from Legwork - Data Search is the primary form of Legwork. You search for information that has been posted about the topic as well as for people who seem to be holding back about the topic. Sure, your Contacts might know someone or something, but someone out there in the Matrix definitely knows something.

I have to disagree here. Yes Data Search is part of Legwork, but its definately NOT the primary part, Legwork, the very term Legwork is associated with detectives (either private or in law-enforcement) using their legs to do the work, aka, walking from contact to contact, looking for witnesses, people who heard something etc. I realize Shadowrun takes place in a cyberpunk setting with more advanced computer networks than today - but there is still a lot of information you will never be able to find in the matrix. Sure looking up who owns Corp A is a data search, but finding the old lady with the cat who happened to see the 2 gangers mugging Mr Joe in redmond barrens last night - will not be on the matrix.

Matrix information can be gotten from contacts (who might have happened upon the data when they last used one of those website roulette functions that tosses you to a random site, or who can do the search for you)

But..

The reverse is definitely not always true.

I just use common sense on deciding if searching the matrix can give the information - sometimes it can, sometimes it cannot.

You are who you know, not how fast you can type :P

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DWC

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« Reply #9 on: (17:56:28/03-21-11) »
In a world infested with self-important morons and social networking software, all the information in the world that used to only be available by walking down the street to talk to someone IS now going to be available on the matrix because the people who know it will write about it in hopes that it will give them their fifteen picoseconds of fame.  Things people used to keep secret are now posted to Youtube in the fevered hope that the single interesting moment of their life will "go viral" and become a meme for three days.

Man Who Walks At Night

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« Reply #10 on: (18:11:36/03-21-11) »
In a world infested with self-important morons and social networking software, all the information in the world that used to only be available by walking down the street to talk to someone IS now going to be available on the matrix because the people who know it will write about it in hopes that it will give them their fifteen picoseconds of fame.  Things people used to keep secret are now posted to Youtube in the fevered hope that the single interesting moment of their life will "go viral" and become a meme for three days.

For a lot of information this is true. But there is still people in the sixth world who just minds their own business and rarely use a trid set for more than watch re-runs of Dallas in 3D. Add to this that information is money, this alone means anything worth knowing is either not going to be found on the net - or protected so fiercely that its a run in itself to get it.

The old lady with the cats from my example is not likely to blog about seeing a couple of gangers beating a guy. 1) She doesn't blog (or use you-tube :P) 2) It could be dangerous for her to speak up about it, but a discrete visit from a couple of runners might get her talking, big difference on what people will say publicly and what you can convince (in various way...) them to say in private.

I'm of the mind that most information which is more than raw data or statistics will still require the runners to do some old fashioned legwork, of course, that is just my take on the Sixth World, and yours may differ :)
-Frag you and the hog you rode in on.

DWC

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« Reply #11 on: (19:03:42/03-21-11) »
Maybe I have a skewed perspective after spending 4 hours in company mandated Social Networking Awareness training today, though I've always had a dim and condescending view of social networking as a whole.  The little old lady with the cat is now on Facebook looking at pictures of her grandkids, who've forgotten that grandma can also see the pictures of them drunk at their first college party. 

In 60 years, why wouldn't she have sent a picture of someone getting beaten up to the other people in her knitting circle (commenting, "look at the sad state of the world"), including someone who's not actually a little old lady but instead is a 24 year old market research analyst for a company that makes neoprene gloves for knitters with arthritic hands.  He sends the picture to some of his friends from college, and one of them posts it to www.worldsmostonesidedfistfights.com, forgetting to strip out the timestamp and the GSP tag that the camera embedded in the file.

Three days later, the image recognition software in your Browse program matches the picture of the victim to someone who failed to show up to make a delivery of a bag of Vory-owned BTLs, cross references the GPS tag and time stamp, and flags the video.  Now, you know who beat the hell out of this guy, when it happened, and, once you find the security camera outside her building, can grab the image of the thrill seekers jumping into his car and driving away.  Again, facial recognition matches one of the attackers up with his picture in an article about him winning the Academic Decathalon, which gives you his name, age, neighborhood, and the name of his high school.

Man Who Walks At Night

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« Reply #12 on: (06:20:38/03-22-11) »
Maybe I have a skewed perspective after spending 4 hours in company mandated Social Networking Awareness training today, though I've always had a dim and condescending view of social networking as a whole.  The little old lady with the cat is now on Facebook looking at pictures of her grandkids, who've forgotten that grandma can also see the pictures of them drunk at their first college party. 

In 60 years, why wouldn't she have sent a picture of someone getting beaten up to the other people in her knitting circle (commenting, "look at the sad state of the world"), including someone who's not actually a little old lady but instead is a 24 year old market research analyst for a company that makes neoprene gloves for knitters with arthritic hands.  He sends the picture to some of his friends from college, and one of them posts it to www.worldsmostonesidedfistfights.com, forgetting to strip out the timestamp and the GSP tag that the camera embedded in the file.

Three days later, the image recognition software in your Browse program matches the picture of the victim to someone who failed to show up to make a delivery of a bag of Vory-owned BTLs, cross references the GPS tag and time stamp, and flags the video.  Now, you know who beat the hell out of this guy, when it happened, and, once you find the security camera outside her building, can grab the image of the thrill seekers jumping into his car and driving away.  Again, facial recognition matches one of the attackers up with his picture in an article about him winning the Academic Decathalon, which gives you his name, age, neighborhood, and the name of his high school.

All valid - I think we will just have to agree that we obviously have different opinions on how widespread social networking is in the sixth world :)
-Frag you and the hog you rode in on.

Sichr

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« Reply #13 on: (16:19:54/03-22-11) »
Maybe I have a skewed perspective after spending 4 hours in company mandated Social Networking Awareness training today, though I've always had a dim and condescending view of social networking as a whole.  The little old lady with the cat is now on Facebook looking at pictures of her grandkids, who've forgotten that grandma can also see the pictures of them drunk at their first college party. 

In 60 years, why wouldn't she have sent a picture of someone getting beaten up to the other people in her knitting circle (commenting, "look at the sad state of the world"), including someone who's not actually a little old lady but instead is a 24 year old market research analyst for a company that makes neoprene gloves for knitters with arthritic hands.  He sends the picture to some of his friends from college, and one of them posts it to www.worldsmostonesidedfistfights.com, forgetting to strip out the timestamp and the GSP tag that the camera embedded in the file.

Three days later, the image recognition software in your Browse program matches the picture of the victim to someone who failed to show up to make a delivery of a bag of Vory-owned BTLs, cross references the GPS tag and time stamp, and flags the video.  Now, you know who beat the hell out of this guy, when it happened, and, once you find the security camera outside her building, can grab the image of the thrill seekers jumping into his car and driving away.  Again, facial recognition matches one of the attackers up with his picture in an article about him winning the Academic Decathalon, which gives you his name, age, neighborhood, and the name of his high school.

Inspiring :)

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #14 on: (23:16:50/03-22-11) »
Heh. My rigger adept has the Media Junkie flaw and the Multitasking adept power specifically so she can be checking her MyTwitBook account in the middle of combat without interrupting her actions.

:)



-k
« Last Edit: (14:45:33/03-23-11) by KarmaInferno »