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Watcher Spirits == perfect surveillance?

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TheHug

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« on: <12-05-11/1619:51> »
So I'm running my game tonight, and hopefully my players will finally see some action. They're getting into the top floor of a building to steal some incriminating data, pretty standard stuff.

I want to get them caught by some kind of surveillance, so they can get themselves into a real fight, which hasn't happened yet. (We've only had like a session and a half, it's complicated).

As I currently have it drawn up, there is a watcher spirit stationed in the room where the objective is, with the instructions to alert the security mage if "anyone enters the room."

I am planning on roleplaying the watcher spirit as sort of a dumb, loyal dog. It will only alert the mage if anyone physically enters the room, but if a character enters the room astrally, It will just kind of float there, and maybe even halve a sort of halfwitted conversation with the PC.

The question is, is there any way to really counter a spirit used for surveillance? If the players enter the room, security will be alerted. If a player banishes or destroys the spirit though, the mage will know immediately because of the mental link. Does this effectively make spirits un-counterable surveillance? If so, I feel kind of cheap using them if the group is trying to be stealthy.

Thoughts?

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #1 on: <12-05-11/1747:22> »
One way would be for the mage of the group to use masking and make himself look like the security mage and give it new orders or tell it to report.

Another way would be put an astral barrier or ward around the watcher so it cannot get to security to report.

Watchers are good for basic things like this, but they are dim witted so if the group can find a way to distract or confuse it that could work too.

Maybe have an astral character engage it in conversation while the others sneak in and then it would have to make a perception roll to notice with 2 dice (1 from skill and 1 from attribute)

These are thoughts that came to me off the top of my head
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Mason

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« Reply #2 on: <12-05-11/1807:55> »
One way would be for the mage of the group to use masking and make himself look like the security mage and give it new orders or tell it to report.

Another way would be put an astral barrier or ward around the watcher so it cannot get to security to report.

Watchers are good for basic things like this, but they are dim witted so if the group can find a way to distract or confuse it that could work too.

Maybe have an astral character engage it in conversation while the others sneak in and then it would have to make a perception roll to notice with 2 dice (1 from skill and 1 from attribute)

These are thoughts that came to me off the top of my head

with -2 dice from distraction.

Tagz

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« Reply #3 on: <12-05-11/1952:43> »
Infiltration will still work.  Physical beings can still use infiltration against astral observers, it's just that the deck is totally stacked in favor of the astral observer.

First of all, the person on the physical needs to be sneaking.  Maybe they had reason to be sneaking before they entered, perhaps not, but they won't have a chance to see the watcher spirit and know they need to START sneaking.

Second, there are tons of dice advantages the watcher will have.  First there are tons of advantages just for astral vision, contrast between astral shadows and auras gives an advantage (even better for Astral Forms against a shadow background).  Given that it's an office room, it will be astral shadows for a background, the players will have auras... good contrast.  Looking at SM p114 looks like +1 (Background Illumination) +1 (Sparse Aura Noise) +2 Aura Contrast +1 (Inverse of BC, cities usually have a standard -1BC).  We're probably talking a +5 dice pool modifier to notice an aura in the room, a +7 seems good to see an astral form, but we might take off a point for -1 Shadow Clutter depending on how much stuff is in the office.  We're not even done with modifiers.

Up next we have regular perception modifiers off SR4A p137.  +3 Actively looking, -2 distracted, either one could apply, or neither could apply.  If the watcher is taking guarding somewhat serious then it shouldn't get the -2 distracted, but that doesn't mean it automatically gets +3 actively looking.  Also there's a +2 bonus for object standing out in some manner.

And finally there is a "superior positioning" bonus as I like to call it.  If the observer has an advantage to see/hear/percieve a certain location and the targets are in that spot, they should get a bonus.  It can range from +1 to pretty much anything that is appropriate.  This becomes a major thing with astral since the target will never know if they walk into that that area or not since they can't tell they're being observed.

All together, our watcher spirit that normally have 2 dice for Astral Perception would get something like 7 to 10, perhaps higher with positioning, when you include all the bonuses.  And that's just a watcher, you can quickly see higher force spirits will be hard to sneak by.

And of course, if they don't know to remain out of sight then they should be considered "Immediately Noticeable" and no roll should even be bothered with.


Anyhow, I think the mage that made the watcher would be equally, if not more concerned with magical things in the office, so there would likely be orders for astral forms in there too.

Crash_00

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« Reply #4 on: <12-06-11/0325:29> »
Quote
Anyhow, I think the mage that made the watcher would be equally, if not more concerned with magical things in the office, so there would likely be orders for astral forms in there too.

Well of course he would be, but watchers are stupid stupid creatures, so its all in the wording. There is a reason you never tell a watcher to search every corner of a building.

Zilfer

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« Reply #5 on: <12-06-11/1407:24> »
 "Search this building top to bottom." xD

Hell i'm surprised if you ask the watcher to look for a person. "Watcher I need you to find this person."

(Watcher comes back with a picture, and stupid smile)

"Found."

(Face palms)
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CanRay

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« Reply #6 on: <12-06-11/1543:07> »
My group keeps forgetting about spirits (Until I beat them with one), but a few demos have involved Watchers.  The wide eyes and slamming their heads into the tables after they've seen and heard what they summoned are like GM Drugs.  ;D
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Greenknight001

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« Reply #7 on: <12-08-11/1554:31> »
Here's a question... if a mage has the Flexible Signature metamagic, can he/she assess a spirit or ward, adjust his/her signature to match the summoner or ward-maker, and walk on by unnoticed?

It seems like this was what this metamagic was created to do, but it isn't mentioned anywhere if this is actually possible.  In fact in Street Magic under "Fooling Wards" the rules state that only Masking can be used for a mage to "synchronize their aura" to the ward...  but wouldn't Flexible Signature, which actually allows a mage to mimic anothers signature, work just as well (if not better)?

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FastJack

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« Reply #8 on: <12-08-11/1609:44> »
Astral Signature and Aura are two different things. The Astral Signature is the impression you leave behind on the Astral when casting spells/etc. Think of it this way: when you cast a spell, you're causing a mana warp in the area of the spell. This warp is uniquely identifiable to you through your connection to the Astral Planes. However, your Aura/Astral Form is your representative avatar on the Astral plane. It's kinda like the difference between you (Aura) and the fingerprints you leave behind (Signature).

So, Flexible Signature allows you to change this impression on the Astral from how you work your magic, whereas Masking changes your appearance on the Astral when being Assensed.

Xzylvador

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« Reply #9 on: <12-08-11/1755:36> »
Hmm... interesting. Considering a watchers low dicepool, fooling it won't be hard.

How far can this be taken?
Could someone who uses Masking (without or without corresponding Flexible Signature) give orders to a spirit? (Good analogy there to a Hacker/Rigger spoofing commands to a drone, but the mechanics are all different I guess.) Or is the mental bond between Summoner & Spirit too powerful for this? (And if it is, wouldn't that mean the spirit can't be fooled by Masking either, because the psychic bond isn't there?)

CanRay

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« Reply #10 on: <12-08-11/1938:33> »
If you know to watch out for them.  Otherwise, it's pretty easy to notice the aura of a person hiding behind a dark area of no emotions.

On the flipside, if you know about them, "Look!  Shiny shiny!  Go get it!"  *Throws far, far away*
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Zilfer

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« Reply #11 on: <12-09-11/0026:23> »
If that worked then you could "Spoof" Services to spirit's currently serving a person. <.<
Having access to Ares Technology isn't so bad, being in a room that's connected to the 'trix with holographic display throughout the whole room isn't bad either. Food, drinks whenever you want it. Over all not bad, but being unable to leave and with a Female Dragon? No Thanks! ~The Captive Man

CanRay

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« Reply #12 on: <12-09-11/0115:27> »
If that worked then you could "Spoof" Services to spirit's currently serving a person. <.<
Depends on how intelligent they are.

Watchers aren't exactly the brightest tools in the shed.  :P
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