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Conspiracy Theories

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Mirikon

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« Reply #105 on: <01-28-12/1036:23> »
C'mon, fellas.  There's nothing wrong with Mirikon just not being a fan of the book.
I love the book. It was Zen Shooter who didn't like it.

And Zen, the books are quality products. A lot of people, myself included, love them. You don't. That's perfectly fine. But expecting them to reformat the books to suit your whims is childish. So see my two options I listed above. And if you don't like the books, why in the name of Ghostwalker's breakfast burrito are you still buying them? Again, either use basic GMing skill to adapt, or throw out what you don't like. But if you continue to buy the books when you don't like them, then you're probably the kind of person that thinks an embargo on Cuba that's lasted 50 years is going to bring about change any day now.
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Nath

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« Reply #106 on: <01-28-12/1119:05> »
Then, you'll never get to know if the books ever get better ("better" from your relative point of view) if you stop buying them and if nobody post online what they think of them.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #107 on: <01-28-12/1154:45> »
Yeah, you can. You can flip through it some in the store before you buy it.
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CanRay

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« Reply #108 on: <01-28-12/1220:50> »
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I'm sorry that you don't like how we aren't holding your hand, but not fully explaining ongoing secrets and storylines in Shadowrun books is par for the course after twenty-three years.
You mean I have to THINK!!!  How dare media make me think in this day and age!!!
Ugh.

My point in all that if it's in the book, there's a good chance that it matters. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, but I probably am because that's just how I come off.
Actually, I was agreeing with you, and that was me being sarcastic and pointing out how modern media hand-holds the public so much that it scares them now to think.

I was raised to use my brain as much as possible and make my own theories, and to question them afterwards.
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Critias

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« Reply #109 on: <01-28-12/1310:41> »
C'mon, fellas.  There's nothing wrong with Mirikon just not being a fan of the book.
I love the book. It was Zen Shooter who didn't like it.
Sorry.  It was late, got wires crossed, got names mixed up.

Longshot23

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« Reply #110 on: <02-16-12/1029:04> »
I'm only halfway through CT so far, but I'm loving it.  Just what SR4 has been needing, IMO.

Longshot23

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« Reply #111 on: <06-02-12/0614:54> »
This is me, following an earlier post of my own.  I'm sure there's a word for that . . .

Perhaps some sort of follow-up would be worthwhile, talking about what the Black Lodge does about their existence being more widely known than they like.  Some more titbits about the Smoking Mirror - honestly, I'm surprised this got left out. Possible signs of Winternight trying to regroup?  Tensions between Sioux Nation and Aztlan have been hinted at before - development? The elven Manitou tribe up north?  Clayton Wilson's maneuverings within Ares? Azzie-controlled tempo? Possible trails of the Big 3 A.I.s?

Also, in my opinion, all SR sourcebooks are conspiracy theory collections to some extent.  It's just part of the nature of shadowrunning.

Mirikon

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« Reply #112 on: <06-02-12/1241:45> »
Winternight tried regrouping. And then Friday got killed in Chicago.

Also, some of these things may show up in the magical groups book that is supposed to be somewhere down the pipe. But the AI thing does bear some thinking on. Actually, that ties in with something i'm really wanting to see. Between Artifacts Unbound and the Arcane societies (or whatever the title is) books, you've got two Awakened-centered books. You've got the corps in Corporate Intrigue, the dragons in the upcoming Clutch of Dragons, the high rollers in Jet Set... seems to me it is about time for a Matrix-centered book.

Afterall, there's more than just the Technomancers' beef with Horizon and e-ghosts warily eyeing EVO and NeoNET. Pax is still alive, and still up to no good. There are matrix cults that spring up all the time. Perhaps we'll see Captain Chaos's e-ghost posting on Jackpoint? If the Emergence was like the Awakening, and Dissonance is like Toxics, what's to say there aren't blood technomancers, and a techno-version of HMHVV? What's to say that there isn't some resonance realm home to critters like Insect Sprites and Shedim? How about technomancers getting Ally Sprites? And more Sprite pacts! And then there's the possibility that some of those three original AIs never actually bought it when the worm came through, but, being intelligent beings, have used everyone's belief that they're dead to keep people from trying to kill them.
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Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #113 on: <06-02-12/1256:00> »
There are plans afoot for Clay Wilson. Whether I get to bring them to fruition or not is another issue entirely.
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #114 on: <06-02-12/1821:15> »
Quote from: MrBlack

Actually, would it make sense to an 'Enemy' style books?  You know, a book which provides detailed views of these organisations and how they operate and provide some stated figures and a list of plot seeds?  Anyways, just an idea.

Well, in my Current Project (tm), I included a two page "Hey GMs, here's the skinny on some of this"sectionwhichmay or may not make it to print. I'd be happy to have a "Director's Commentary" section, here for example, that allows me to get some info in that word count doesn't allow for, but, it's kind of hard to note what plot seedsare gold and which ones are fallow: that is to say, I wrote it with the knowledge that I'd be tied up for a good six months after it releases and couldn't followup personally on things, so, I left things prepped so that other writers could take things andrun with them, or they could leave them alone and let GMs run with them. I have no idea which seeds will take root, however.

For instance, let's say that I had a story where Bull started dressing in Disco clothing and talking in 70's-era jive. It launches, but it's not the main story that Catalyst is working on. On the one hand, flagging this in some way that "This is a small plot that you can use as you wish" would greenlight everyone to run their games with the story, knowing that a Catalyst book wouldn't come out in a year that would erase the past year of their game's work. On the other hand, those flags mean that no one else could pick it up and run with it, even if they had a great idea for a Disco Spirit that was slowly converting people into Funksters at its private Funkatorium. We'd have flagged it as a dead end, and the thingwould lie there, unloved.

Worse, it would show the cards that Catalyst keeps in a sleeve... ifyou know these seven plots aren't to be followed up on, then that means that these three *will* be, so they're moe important, whichmeans the others are NOT important, which makes people feel like they've wasted money.

So, it'scomplicated.

Obviously, you want every book to enrich games and not trample on people, but, you also have to watch for spoilers for those who like the mystery.

TL;DR, everybody's different and you can't make them all happy.

-- Wak

Longshot23

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« Reply #115 on: <06-03-12/0515:03> »
Yay . . . discussion!!!

Nath

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« Reply #116 on: <06-03-12/0659:10> »
It reminds me the Heavy Gear RPG featured...

Wait, I can mention Heavy Gear on a Catalyst forums?


...


Oh, it seems I can.


So, the Heavy Gear RPG featured a chess piece icon next to every NPC profiles : kings/queens were major figures who already played a part in history and whose death would be an event in itself ; rooks were playing a major part in ongoing or future events, so killing them would derail a plot ; knights would be involved in future events, but could easily be replaced by another NPC should they disappear ; bishops were only background NPC to be used for flavor ; and pawns were the nameless generic NPC.

For instance, prior to the Renraku arcology crisis and Brainscan, Inazo Aneki and possibly Sherman Huang would have been Kings (the character was alread well established, and the death of Renraku CEO or America VP would be a big event, no matter what), Angela Colloton would have been a Rook (plays a major role in the story, again in System Failure, and ends up President of the UCAS later in the timeline), Vanessa Cliber, Cham Lam Won, Pax and the likes would have been Knights (my opinion, I think you can replace them with similar NPC, including for Pax part in System Failure, and they never show again after), and you had banded and red samurais as Pawns.

Indeed, as Wakshaani said, it gave away hints at what may happen next. When a local manager is described as "ambitious" and flagged as a Rook, while her immediate superior is flagged as a Knight, you can see where it is going. You also had some WTF moment, starring at a seemingly minor NPC with no obvious influence or skill, flagged as a Knight or even Rook.

The system was interesting. But I have no idea how Dream Pod 9 people were handling it during the writing stage.

JustADude

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« Reply #117 on: <06-03-12/0824:10> »
The system was interesting. But I have no idea how Dream Pod 9 people were handling it during the writing stage.

Thinking 5 moves ahead, of course, just like a chess-master. ;D

But, seriously, this is how I'd bet it happened: They would make outlines of where they wanted things to go quite a bit in advance, with notations about which characters would play what roles, and tagged the NPCs with their "rank" last thing before the title they were going to debut in was finalized.
« Last Edit: <06-03-12/0848:42> by JustADude »
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Wakshaani

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« Reply #118 on: <06-03-12/1041:00> »
A tad more informal here. The freelancers are often firing email back and forth, asking, "Hey, I want to have person X do Y. Anyone have plans that contradict this?" Usually, everyone handwaves it, but someone might go, "Wait. Before you do Y, check out page # in book Z. That person had a different viewpoint. Maybe you can use this other person instead?" 

Some characters have a plot arc lined up, while others don't, facilitating their use at different levels. Their importantce, however, isn't ranked by a chess analogue (Which isn't a bad way to go, in all honesty).

Keep in mind, there was The Incident, which resulted in the loss of a great number of writers, and plots that they had went with them, so, several storylines wound up getting dropped or changed, while others had to be started anew. This threw a wrench into the works and it'll be a year or three before enough raw work is done to get things back on the "What has come before" building level. There are notes on characters that some people know and others don't, generating a small stumble now and then, but that's again being worked out as everyone settles in.

For example, in Twilight Horizon, I wrote the chapter on new product lines from Horizon. There, I introduced Marionette, a 'runner from the Phillipines who relies heavily on Activesofts (And Knowsoft and Linguasofts ... you get the idea) because, as far as I could tell, no one on Jackpoint has any and I needed to talk about them. It turns out that Hard Exit has a set, so I could have used her and didn't know it. D'oh. On the plus side, we didn't have a Phillipino 'runner, so no one was there to have a good voice if we needed to talk about Masaru or the general situation over there, so, she might come up in the future. (She could also chip in about Yakuza issues, Bunraku parlors, and a few other things based on her background).

Ultimately, the freelancers are in a situation not unlike being a comic book writer: You're working with someone else's intellectual property and, as such, you want to play nicely and leave things where you found them for those who come after you. If you kill a storyline, you should plant a few seeds so that others can have something to work with, and if you plan on a big change, you'd better talk to the boss before pulling the trigger.

"Okay, so, I want to write the ultimate Joker story, where at the end of it, Batman kills him. It'll be HUGE! Sales will be through the roof!"
"Dude, I have a drawer, here, *filled* with 'Batman kills the Joker' stories. Kill him off, and we can never do *any* Joker stories again. Try something else."

Keep in mind, Shadowrun has a lot more change than, say, Marvel comics. People get killed off. Crash 2.0 cleaned house, Dragonslayer was killed later, Fatima went down at the start of the Ghost Cartel saga, and no one has absolute plot immunity. There's a running joke that every freelancer has a story that starts, "Okay, so, we kill off Lofwyr," Fuchi was erased, and Nightmaster the Great Dragon died in a mid-air duel. In every brainstorming session, there're always some big ideas that get floated because, well, everybody has one that they think could be awesome. "WIll this make a good story? Will it create fun for the playerbase and gamemasteries running their local games? How will this effect the metaplot?" ... important questions.

So, take a look at the "Death of Lofwyr" plot. Will removing ol' Golden Snout make the world more interesting or less? We've seen that when a Great dies (Big D!), that big things can happen, but we've also seen that it can kinda vanish (Nightmaster) ... how would it effect Sader-Krupp? Can this generate more stories or less stories than Lofwyr still on top? Obviously, it makes DIFFERENT stories, but better? What about these plots that he's involved with, here? What happens to S-K when he's gone? How do other dragons react? Etc etc etc. I'm not saying it can't be done; I'm saying before you do it, you'd better have a plan.

Nobody in Shadowrun has plot immunity, but some have pretty hefty levels of plot armor. :)

CanRay

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« Reply #119 on: <06-03-12/1107:43> »
And then you get weirdos like me.  ;D
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