NEWS

Way of the Adept

  • 17 Replies
  • 5442 Views

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« on: <11-16-11/0437:41> »
A couple of points that I'd like to address/suggest in regards to the New Powers:

Natural Survivor(s):  At least in my opinion, the skill-set chosen (Wilderness/Urban) should be determined by the totem followed by the character; it makes as little sense for Mountain to be good at Shadowing, Survival (in an urban environment), and Street Knowledge, for example.  Alas, the 'maximum modified rating' caveat should be pointed out here as well; I might also suggest a hard cap of 3 levels; those totems that are urban/wilderness flexible should be required to either decide to be very good in one place, or maybe just good in both.


Swift and Terrible:  Fun thing.  However, it costs 0.5 points per level ... but it would appear that the levels do not do anything.  This is a set-piece power (defeat foe, +1 Initiative!!) in which levels do not apply -- unless, for the truly Swift and Terrible, their Initiative goes up by +1 per level per enemy defeated in armed/unarmed combat.  Suddenly you're talking Very Swift and Very Terrible ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Crimsondude

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3071
« Reply #1 on: <11-16-11/0507:37> »
Have you checked Critias' unofficial errata?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #2 on: <11-16-11/0645:39> »
Of course.  While the first is of course not addressed -- it's more opinion than errata -- nothing is said about the second, just a phrasing correction.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Crimsondude

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3071
« Reply #3 on: <11-16-11/0652:35> »
That seems odd.

I'd chock it up to a typo then, and it's a flat 0.5. Of course, knowing Critias and having seen him play Hero with a rule that sounds similar, I wouldn't put it past him to have it be stackable so that you do get the +1 for every foe defeated up to the level of the power. Because, like you said, that would be swift and terrible indeed, which to his credit is par for the course when dealing with Critias' adepts. They're beasts. There's really no way around that, and it is definitely something sammies can't get, and makes it worthwhile not to cram cyber into your body because the non-Way rules actually make that the optimal method of building adepts.
« Last Edit: <11-16-11/0657:55> by James Meiers »

Makki

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 566
« Reply #4 on: <11-16-11/0724:18> »
I always hated Swift and Terrible, as I read it like +1 ini IF I defeat someone and this costs 0.5. If I can defeat two guys in one round and I want a +2 bonus the next round, I need to buy the power at level 2. This power is very obsolete in my opinion.
If I can defeat several opponents in one round, which is necessary for this power to come into effect
a) I am already very fast, i.e. high initiative and several IPs
b) There are no more enemies in round two

the only time I can see this be worth the cost is "charging up" on initiative by hitting minions of some sort of super boss. But is being the fastest in Round 2 really important?

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #5 on: <11-16-11/1851:05> »
It is when you and the decker are trying (and failing) to face down thirty or fifty gangers armed with nothing but a baseball bat and a wicked grin.  Going first and fast means kicking their teeth in before they can take their swings -- and the guys behind them then have to close with you.  After three or five turns of that, well, the ones in back should start thinking that maybe this is a seriously losing proposition ...
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Mirikon

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 8985
  • "Everybody lies." --House
« Reply #6 on: <11-16-11/1941:10> »
Bat < SMG.
Greataxe - Apply directly to source of problem, repeat as needed.

My Characters

CanRay

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Mr. Johnson
  • ***
  • Posts: 11092
  • Spouter of Random Words
    • CanRay's Artistic Work
« Reply #7 on: <11-16-11/2105:56> »
Bat < SMG.
Bat < SMG < Batarang.  :P
Si vis pacem, para bellum

#ThisTaserGoesTo11

Makki

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 566
« Reply #8 on: <11-17-11/0127:23> »
I don't get Swift and Terrible. Improved Attribute Reaction does the same, except it is always on and works for defense and driving tests, too, but costs about the same.

Crimsondude

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 3071
« Reply #9 on: <11-17-11/0356:49> »
I believe it has to do with the difference between modifiers and bonuses.

FastJack

  • *
  • Administrator
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 6163
  • Kids these days...
« Reply #10 on: <11-17-11/0817:17> »
Bat < SMG.
Bat < SMG < Batarang.  :P
I knew there was a reason I kept you around.

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #11 on: <11-18-11/0215:59> »
None of this answers the question, though.  At least not yet.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Critias

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2521
  • Company Elf
« Reply #12 on: <11-19-11/1334:38> »
A couple of points that I'd like to address/suggest in regards to the New Powers:

Natural Survivor(s):  At least in my opinion, the skill-set chosen (Wilderness/Urban) should be determined by the totem followed by the character; it makes as little sense for Mountain to be good at Shadowing, Survival (in an urban environment), and Street Knowledge, for example.  Alas, the 'maximum modified rating' caveat should be pointed out here as well; I might also suggest a hard cap of 3 levels; those totems that are urban/wilderness flexible should be required to either decide to be very good in one place, or maybe just good in both.
Well, yes.  That's very much the intent -- that someone would choose the appropriate skill set for the character and Totem in question.  That's kind of why it starts with the sentence that mentions some folks get it from a canny urban Mentor, others from a link to the elements due to a wilderness Totem.

I didn't have the space or inclination to list every single Mentor (and any new Mentors that might be introduced in the future, by other writers) and which skill set is likely to apply, though, so I just left it open to individual character and GM interpretation. 

That said, yes it should have the same "(max 3 levels)" as Kinesics, and now Unseen Hands and Prodigious Physicality.  Googleratta doc updated.


Quote
Swift and Terrible:  Fun thing.  However, it costs 0.5 points per level ... but it would appear that the levels do not do anything.  This is a set-piece power (defeat foe, +1 Initiative!!) in which levels do not apply -- unless, for the truly Swift and Terrible, their Initiative goes up by +1 per level per enemy defeated in armed/unarmed combat.  Suddenly you're talking Very Swift and Very Terrible ...
The latter interpretation is correct.  For every enemy you kick/punch/stab/whatever, your Initiative goes up by one in the next round, to a limit of your ranks in Swift and Terrible.  Every time you count coup and hit a mo'fo, you build momentum.

I'm genuinely not sure how that part is unclear.  The line of text explains that the power applies for everyone beaten in close combat (and the Googleratta specifies what "beaten" means), it specifies that it's during a single combat round, it says you then apply a +1 to the adept's Initiative (per guy beaten, as per the start of the sentence), then mentions that it's limited by the levels taken in this power, and finally it says how long it lasts (for the next round's initiative roll).  If someone has a better way to phrase it, by all means!  I'm all ears, and will toss it into my Googleratta if there's a clearer way to write it.

As for the optimization potential of Swift and Terrible, keep in mind, first and foremost, it modifies your Initiative attribute.  Not your Reaction Score (which is capped by normal metahuman racial maximum stuff).  So it's a way to get past that (generally) limit of "9" on Reaction, by buffing Initiative directly, instead.

It's a specialized power for a specialized character -- "for the man who has everything."  If you've already got maxed out Reaction through conventional adept means, and you don't feel fast enough, it's just another way to be that little bit faster. 

Also, keep in mind that Warrior Adepts get the most bang for their buck in discounted powers (theirs tend to cost more than others), so they didn't necessarily need a new power that's as efficient as Prodigious Physicality or Unseen Hands.  Swift and Terrible is the icing on top, not the cake itself.  But if you've already got the delicious, delicious, cake, the icing can really be pretty insane.  It's just another way for a focused close-combat guy to do something different, instead of just "Yawn, more dice to hit with," or "Yawn, more damage dice."
« Last Edit: <11-19-11/1340:54> by Critias »

The Wyrm Ouroboros

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 4470
  • I Have Taken All Shadowrun To Be My Province
    • VU93 Writeup for The Wyrm Ouroboros
« Reply #13 on: <11-19-11/1509:39> »
Ah, okay.  For some reason I'd skimmed over 'to a limit of levels taken in this power'.  My bad.
Pananagutan & End/Line

Old As McBean, Twice As Mean
"Oh, gee - it's Go-Frag-Yourself-O'Clock."
New Wyrm!! Now with Twice the Bastard!!

Laés is ... I forget. -PiXeL01
Play the game. Don't try to win it.

Critias

  • *
  • Freelancer
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 2521
  • Company Elf
« Reply #14 on: <11-19-11/1620:25> »
In all seriousness, if there's a way I can keep the power description fairly compact (like all the rest), and somehow make it clearer, just shout.  If it's not clear, then that's on me.  I readily admit that the crunch isn't my strong suit compared to the fluff, so if there's a way I can word the rule to make it more obvious, lemme know.
« Last Edit: <11-19-11/1648:18> by Critias »