[Wakshaani]

I do have a few Metahuman Rights activists who are human children of Ork parents ... they just grew up 'runty', as it were.

Which was quite fun when a character took a shine to one. Rebecca brings him home to meet her family... and there's her Ork mom, Ork dad, five sisters, and seven brothers, all Orks but her.

...

What can I say? The Munsters knew how to work the angles.

[Stry]

It is my understanding from what I read goblinization is not as common as it once was, most ork and troll babbies come from ork and troll parents now.  There is something of interest is that those that go though goblinization (the first generation of orks and trolls) tend to live far longer than their children, even may out live their grand children,  and that orks and trolls may have a much shorter lifespan than other metahummans. 

I think the human children of orks could just be orks with the human looking quality.

 If you point to SURGE and changelings that was a YotC thing and there have been cases of SURGE sense then, although I am not sure about changelings' children.

[Mirikon]

Well, part of the reason for the shorter lifespan is environmental. How many orks and trolls do you see in the middle to luxury lifestyles? The majority of them are low or lower.

[CanRay]

Well, part of the reason for the shorter lifespan is environmental. How many orks and trolls do you see in the middle to luxury lifestyles? The majority of them are low or lower.

Part, but not the whole reason.  Goblinized Orks and Trolls lived in the same conditions and still lived average human lifetimes while their descendants lived far less.

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Well, part of the reason for the shorter lifespan is environmental. How many orks and trolls do you see in the middle to luxury lifestyles? The majority of them are low or lower.

Which, actually, isn't part of the reason at all -- or rather, it's as much part of the reason as the difference for anybody living in 'reduced circumstances'.  Orks, by canon, have a very short lifespan; not life expectancy at birth, which due to infant mortality can be gruesomely low (31 in the early 20th century), but general life span -- once you survive your infant years (5 years old), or as other research has it, once you survive to age 20.  Given the latter, humans even in the Upper Paleolithic could be expected to live to age 54 or thereabouts.  Disease caused the life span average for a male of the aristocracy in England to drop from 64 (1200-1300 AD) to 45 (1300-1400 AD); three cheers for the Black Death.

Orks, once they make it past 20, go to 35-45.  Not 65-75; 35-45.  As CanRay put it, some who Goblinized are watching their grandchildren age practically before their eyes ...

[CanRay]

Orks, once they make it past 20, go to 35-45.  Not 65-75; 35-45.  As CanRay put it, some who Goblinized are watching their grandchildren age practically before their eyes ...

"Never Trust An Elf", when you find out about Kham's Grandfather and Mother...

[Stry]

Another reason why they live shorter life spans could be explained by the fact that orks tend to give birth in litters making Kate Gosselin look like a slacker.  If they lived the same life expectancy  of a human let a lone drawfs or elfs the world could not support that much a population,

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

Probably the other way around, at least initially.  Those who had multiple births were more likely to have a surviving child; natural selection takes care of the rest.

[Wakshaani]

The litters thing is new... it used to just be that Orks had a short gestation period (6 months, IIRC), and were generally poor, so their only entertainment was, erm. Baby-makin'. So, they usually had a half dozen kids, which lead to racist talk about "litters" and the like.

It's only recently turned from "Racist chatter" to canon. Which still weirds me out.

As for wealth, there's also the odd notation from Socio Pat a decade and a half ago (so ... old ...) where he noted that wealthier families were hit with UGE for Dwarf and Elf kids, while the poor were largely hit with Goblinization. In Shadowrun, the poor are simply more likely to be tusked while the wealthy are more likely to be pretty.

Which is an ... interesting ... lesson.

(You'll find that the south, for instance, had a larger-than-usual Ork and Troll population, with Appalachia having almost 10% Troll, the highest in the former US. The northwest had a larger Elf population. Dwarves don't seem common anywhere. Oh Dwarves, so easily overlooked.)

[CanRay]

Maybe a genetic impetus for UGE is tied to genetic intelligence?

[Patrick Goodman]

The bit about orks having kids in litters goes all the way back to the SR1 core book. Frankly, it's kinda stupid, but what can ya do?

[CanRay]

The bit about orks having kids in litters goes all the way back to the SR1 core book. Frankly, it's kinda stupid, but what can ya do?

Have a TrogRock Love Ballad about "Room For A Litter"?

[FastJack]

The bit about orks having kids in litters goes all the way back to the SR1 core book. Frankly, it's kinda stupid, but what can ya do?

I always look at the stuff in SR1 on the races as being "theoretical" and not empirical. That, and that some of the scientists may have been propagandizing for some Human-centric groups.

[Bull]

i should point out that SR1 also says that Trolls like living id dark, secluded places, like under bridges.

Yeah.

Bull

[Mirikon]

As for wealth, there's also the odd notation from Socio Pat a decade and a half ago (so ... old ...) where he noted that wealthier families were hit with UGE for Dwarf and Elf kids, while the poor were largely hit with Goblinization. In Shadowrun, the poor are simply more likely to be tusked while the wealthy are more likely to be pretty.

Which is an ... interesting ... lesson.

(You'll find that the south, for instance, had a larger-than-usual Ork and Troll population, with Appalachia having almost 10% Troll, the highest in the former US. The northwest had a larger Elf population. Dwarves don't seem common anywhere. Oh Dwarves, so easily overlooked.)

One theory that was put forward was that there were environmental issues that factored into the change. In other words, more well-off, better fed, healthier parents were more likely to give birth to humans, dwarves, and elves, while poorer, hungrier, and sicker parents were more likely to get orks and trolls. In addition to all the lovely contaminants you find in the Barrens.

Of course, Shadowlanders debunked that theory back in the Tir Tairngir book, saying that a couple Humanis members were the ones who did the study.