[CanRay]

Very true points.

But always carry explosives anyhow, because breaching a wall for a quick escape is always Plan B.

[Mirikon]

Natch. But it is still well above 'kill everything in the place'. Because that kind of thinking gets you put at the top of a lot of 'to do' lists.

[Zilfer]

Like I said before, in Shadowrun the goal shouldn't be 'kill everything' but 'GTFO of Dodge'. You do enough to accomplish the mission and get out. Tactics become very important. Tossing flashbangs into a room before you breach in order to soften up the guards, spraying bullets to keep people's heads down while you escape, killing the lights, sealing doors behind you, diving off the cliff to the boat waiting below, and so on. But my inspiration for shadowrun comes primarily from sources such as James Bond, Johnny Mnemonic, Hackers, Ghost in the Shell, and the like. In other words, most of the time stealth, planning, and guerilla tactics are more important than blowing the hell out of things.

It's just as equally important in Dnd. If you see an group of my firebusters. (red orcs) your not going to rush them, (or fire ball them for that matter) Your going to need to use tactic's to gain the initial upperhand, and if your doing a mission to obtain something from them or the Zhentarim you don't want to go exploring every damn room in the 4 floor dungeon, you'll never make it out alive. Don't make too much noise in the dungeon or you have to worry about flankers, if someone got away assume they are going to sound the alarm just like an alarm in the building. Beware of Invisible stalkers, or eyes on the walls, there are plenty of things in dnd that is just like Shadowrun.

I'm failing to see the fine point. I get that shadowrun is supposed to be deadly but it's still tailored to be advantagous to the player. There are plenty of things you can do to get you killed in Shadowrun, just like there are plenty of things that will get you killed in DnD. They are different because the settings are different sure, and I agree you don't want to stick around but from what you can do in shadowrun you can easily take down most opposition really quickly.

Your first sentance is also true of Dnd. Your first objective should not be kill everything, that is a way to garentee you'll make a lot of enemies in DnD.

[CanRay]

Your first sentance is also true of Dnd. Your first objective should not be kill everything, that is a way to garentee you'll make a lot of enemies in DnD.

But if you don't kill everything, how do you get XP and Lewt???   

[Zilfer]

Your first sentance is also true of Dnd. Your first objective should not be kill everything, that is a way to garentee you'll make a lot of enemies in DnD.

But if you don't kill everything, how do you get XP and Lewt???   

You'll always get EXP, and there will always be "tomorrow". You don't need to "Kill" the enemies to get the exp from a situation. If you can circumvent a room of 2 dragons sleeping by some clever trick the DM should award you the same amount of EXP as if you had fought them. Or if you manage to convince them to not kill you. xD


Anyways, we digress.....

*goes back to looking at his shiny slivergun*

[CanRay]

You'll always get EXP, and there will always be "tomorrow". You don't need to "Kill" the enemies to get the exp from a situation. If you can circumvent a room of 2 dragons sleeping by some clever trick the DM should award you the same amount of EXP as if you had fought them. Or if you manage to convince them to not kill you. xD

Anyways, we digress.....

*goes back to looking at his shiny slivergun*

Humph.  Kids today and their shiny new system that rewards you for NOT getting into acts of homicide!    (I just started playing in an 2^nd Ed AD&D game.).

Back to pistols, always go with the right tool for the right job.  The Colt L36 "American" or Hammerli 620S are nice, slim, stylish pistols that won't raise the eyes of most officers, or even body guards (The Matte Black versions also look nice with Tuxes and Little Black Dresses, apparently.).  An Ares Predator (No matter the make) or a Colt Manhunter for when you need to bring down the heavy heat are both nice.  If you need to overcompensate for something, there's always the Ruger Superwarhawk (Or you're hunting cars, large paracritters, or really slotted off trolls.).  Myself, I like Colt Asp's with specialty ammo for placing around a house, right beside FlashBang Grenades or other Distraction Devices.

[Zilfer]

You'll always get EXP, and there will always be "tomorrow". You don't need to "Kill" the enemies to get the exp from a situation. If you can circumvent a room of 2 dragons sleeping by some clever trick the DM should award you the same amount of EXP as if you had fought them. Or if you manage to convince them to not kill you. xD

Anyways, we digress.....

*goes back to looking at his shiny slivergun*

Humph.  Kids today and their shiny new system that rewards you for NOT getting into acts of homicide!    (I just started playing in an 2^nd Ed AD&D game.).

Back to pistols, always go with the right tool for the right job.  The Colt L36 "American" or Hammerli 620S are nice, slim, stylish pistols that won't raise the eyes of most officers, or even body guards (The Matte Black versions also look nice with Tuxes and Little Black Dresses, apparently.).  An Ares Predator (No matter the make) or a Colt Manhunter for when you need to bring down the heavy heat are both nice.  If you need to overcompensate for something, there's always the Ruger Superwarhawk (Or you're hunting cars, large paracritters, or really slotted off trolls.).  Myself, I like Colt Asp's with specialty ammo for placing around a house, right beside FlashBang Grenades or other Distraction Devices.

I'd like to note that I was introduced to dnd by my friend's dad who had the original box set for dnd. Those dice look so old and beat up it's crazy. He almost never uses them anymore against us either. XD anyways i have a more 1st 2nd edittion view for some of Dnd. Hell most people I've talked to do not like our house rules at all. XD

When you say the super rugar hawk brings down heavy things like cars could you give out an example, i'm really curious about that because I've yet to shoot a car and the Super Rugar Warhack really doesn't impress me that much when most shadowrunner characters are running around with like 16 Balistic. xD Example would be wonderful.

[Mirikon]

Um, most shadowrunners do NOT run around with 16 ballistic armor. Not even in the slightest.

But yeah, the Ruger Superwarhawk is 6P, -2 AP. Not exactly car hunting material there, unless you have a really small car, and are using APDS ammo.

[kirk]

You'll always get EXP, and there will always be "tomorrow". You don't need to "Kill" the enemies to get the exp from a situation. If you can circumvent a room of 2 dragons sleeping by some clever trick the DM should award you the same amount of EXP as if you had fought them. Or if you manage to convince them to not kill you. xD

Anyways, we digress.....

*goes back to looking at his shiny slivergun*

Humph.  Kids today and their shiny new system that rewards you for NOT getting into acts of homicide!    (I just started playing in an 2^nd Ed AD&D game.).

Back to pistols, always go with the right tool for the right job.  The Colt L36 "American" or Hammerli 620S are nice, slim, stylish pistols that won't raise the eyes of most officers, or even body guards (The Matte Black versions also look nice with Tuxes and Little Black Dresses, apparently.).  An Ares Predator (No matter the make) or a Colt Manhunter for when you need to bring down the heavy heat are both nice.  If you need to overcompensate for something, there's always the Ruger Superwarhawk (Or you're hunting cars, large paracritters, or really slotted off trolls.).  Myself, I like Colt Asp's with specialty ammo for placing around a house, right beside FlashBang Grenades or other Distraction Devices.

I'd like to note that I was introduced to dnd by my friend's dad who had the original box set for dnd. Those dice look so old and beat up it's crazy. He almost never uses them anymore against us either. XD anyways i have a more 1st 2nd edittion view for some of Dnd. Hell most people I've talked to do not like our house rules at all. XD

When you say the super rugar hawk brings down heavy things like cars could you give out an example, i'm really curious about that because I've yet to shoot a car and the Super Rugar Warhack really doesn't impress me that much when most shadowrunner characters are running around with like 16 Balistic. xD Example would be wonderful.

I think the best starting place is to remember that vehicle armor is, for all intents and purposes, hardened. That's because you can't stun a vehicle. So unless your modified DV is greater than the vehicle's armor, it has no effect.

The Ruger Superhawk has 6P, -2AP base. That means as long as you get 1 net hit you're punching through armor 8 or less. Coincidentally, the stock armor for the Bulldog step van is 8.

This, by the way, exceeds what you can do with assault rifles or shotguns or submachine guns. You have to move up to sniper rifles to do better.

[CanRay]

Actually, it's not so much as "Car Hunting" as "Car Scaring The Hell Away".

No, if I was actually car hunting, Panther Assault Cannon or a HMG.

[JustADude]

You'll always get EXP, and there will always be "tomorrow". You don't need to "Kill" the enemies to get the exp from a situation. If you can circumvent a room of 2 dragons sleeping by some clever trick the DM should award you the same amount of EXP as if you had fought them. Or if you manage to convince them to not kill you. xD

Anyways, we digress.....

*goes back to looking at his shiny slivergun*

Humph.  Kids today and their shiny new system that rewards you for NOT getting into acts of homicide!    (I just started playing in an 2^nd Ed AD&D game.).

Back to pistols, always go with the right tool for the right job.  The Colt L36 "American" or Hammerli 620S are nice, slim, stylish pistols that won't raise the eyes of most officers, or even body guards (The Matte Black versions also look nice with Tuxes and Little Black Dresses, apparently.).  An Ares Predator (No matter the make) or a Colt Manhunter for when you need to bring down the heavy heat are both nice.  If you need to overcompensate for something, there's always the Ruger Superwarhawk (Or you're hunting cars, large paracritters, or really slotted off trolls.).  Myself, I like Colt Asp's with specialty ammo for placing around a house, right beside FlashBang Grenades or other Distraction Devices.

I'd like to note that I was introduced to dnd by my friend's dad who had the original box set for dnd. Those dice look so old and beat up it's crazy. He almost never uses them anymore against us either. XD anyways i have a more 1st 2nd edittion view for some of Dnd. Hell most people I've talked to do not like our house rules at all. XD

When you say the super rugar hawk brings down heavy things like cars could you give out an example, i'm really curious about that because I've yet to shoot a car and the Super Rugar Warhack really doesn't impress me that much when most shadowrunner characters are running around with like 16 Balistic. xD Example would be wonderful.

I think the best starting place is to remember that vehicle armor is, for all intents and purposes, hardened. That's because you can't stun a vehicle. So unless your modified DV is greater than the vehicle's armor, it has no effect.

The Ruger Superhawk has 6P, -2AP base. That means as long as you get 1 net hit you're punching through armor 8 or less. Coincidentally, the stock armor for the Bulldog step van is 8.

This, by the way, exceeds what you can do with assault rifles or shotguns or submachine guns. You have to move up to sniper rifles to do better.

However, a Rover 2068 has a stock armor of 10... and a body of 16. Also a few levels of Passenger Protection stock. 

[KarmaInferno]

(Paladin of Kelemvor, God of Death doesn't beleive in killing unless it's your actual time to die.... <.<

Oh that one's easy. "Hey Kelemvor, lemme know if it's not this guy's time to die and you want me to stop. Nothing? No? Sorry, dude, your time to die. I don't make the rules."

As for the first edition dice, my original set stopped getting used because the plastic was so cheap the dice started crumbling starting at the corners and my D20 wouldn't stop rolling due to it having become a ball.

I have another set still sealed in their original plastic baggie. I'm afraid that if I ever opened it the dice would corrode into dust.


-k

[kirk]

You'll always get EXP, and there will always be "tomorrow". You don't need to "Kill" the enemies to get the exp from a situation. If you can circumvent a room of 2 dragons sleeping by some clever trick the DM should award you the same amount of EXP as if you had fought them. Or if you manage to convince them to not kill you. xD

Anyways, we digress.....

*goes back to looking at his shiny slivergun*

Humph.  Kids today and their shiny new system that rewards you for NOT getting into acts of homicide!    (I just started playing in an 2^nd Ed AD&D game.).

Back to pistols, always go with the right tool for the right job.  The Colt L36 "American" or Hammerli 620S are nice, slim, stylish pistols that won't raise the eyes of most officers, or even body guards (The Matte Black versions also look nice with Tuxes and Little Black Dresses, apparently.).  An Ares Predator (No matter the make) or a Colt Manhunter for when you need to bring down the heavy heat are both nice.  If you need to overcompensate for something, there's always the Ruger Superwarhawk (Or you're hunting cars, large paracritters, or really slotted off trolls.).  Myself, I like Colt Asp's with specialty ammo for placing around a house, right beside FlashBang Grenades or other Distraction Devices.

I'd like to note that I was introduced to dnd by my friend's dad who had the original box set for dnd. Those dice look so old and beat up it's crazy. He almost never uses them anymore against us either. XD anyways i have a more 1st 2nd edittion view for some of Dnd. Hell most people I've talked to do not like our house rules at all. XD

When you say the super rugar hawk brings down heavy things like cars could you give out an example, i'm really curious about that because I've yet to shoot a car and the Super Rugar Warhack really doesn't impress me that much when most shadowrunner characters are running around with like 16 Balistic. xD Example would be wonderful.

I think the best starting place is to remember that vehicle armor is, for all intents and purposes, hardened. That's because you can't stun a vehicle. So unless your modified DV is greater than the vehicle's armor, it has no effect.

The Ruger Superhawk has 6P, -2AP base. That means as long as you get 1 net hit you're punching through armor 8 or less. Coincidentally, the stock armor for the Bulldog step van is 8.

This, by the way, exceeds what you can do with assault rifles or shotguns or submachine guns. You have to move up to sniper rifles to do better.

However, a Rover 2068 has a stock armor of 10... and a body of 16. Also a few levels of Passenger Protection stock. 

To which the proper answer is, "so?" With ExEX, net one hit is sufficient to penetrate the (unmodified) Rover with 7P/-3AP.

Let's be completely honest and note that if you're only getting one net hit you probably should not be the one shooting at a vehicle. Nonetheless, you need a sniper rifle or an MMG to have the same or better baseline.

[Zilfer]

(Paladin of Kelemvor, God of Death doesn't beleive in killing unless it's your actual time to die.... <.<

Oh that one's easy. "Hey Kelemvor, lemme know if it's not this guy's time to die and you want me to stop. Nothing? No? Sorry, dude, your time to die. I don't make the rules."

As for the first edition dice, my original set stopped getting used because the plastic was so cheap the dice started crumbling starting at the corners and my D20 wouldn't stop rolling due to it having become a ball.

I have another set still sealed in their original plastic baggie. I'm afraid that if I ever opened it the dice would corrode into dust.


-k

pretty much what his looks like. Looks like it's about to fall apart at any moment but it still rolls. The problem is determining the number on the d20.

As for your qoute, that would probably lead me to being a fighter quite fast. We generally want the person to die a "natural death" and yeah there's always the saying "A dagger to the heart(or throat) quite naturally end's one's life." Generally don't live by that one lol.

[Zilfer]

Um, most shadowrunners do NOT run around with 16 ballistic armor. Not even in the slightest.

But yeah, the Ruger Superwarhawk is 6P, -2 AP. Not exactly car hunting material there, unless you have a really small car, and are using APDS ammo.

Armored jacket + softweave + deltoid + some form fitting armor. + (Any other bonus you can think of adding on there)

From that alone i'm seeing, 8 + 3 + 6 = 17, you could take kevlar instead and make it 16. You can change it around depending on how much body you have.

<.< It's really not that hard to have that much running around with. I don't see why you wouldn't at least have some higher ballistic than the base gear. Also most of the group is running around with Rating 6 Insulation/non-conductivity/Fire/Chemical Resistance. Don't see why you wouldn't for the paranoid world of shadowrun.