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Bone Lacing Vs Bone Augmentation

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redTroll

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« on: <09-05-11/0617:09> »
Not sure if it is errata but Bone lacing (cyberware) is forbidden while bone augmentation (bioware) isn't even restricted. Is there a reason for this, as any clarification would help stop the whining in our games

UmaroVI

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« Reply #1 on: <09-05-11/0643:06> »
There's no good reason for it. Nothing breaks if you houserule it, but there isn't errata, either.

Basically, what happened is that it's a consequence of design by committee, which leads to inconsistencies like this. Whoever assigned Bone Lacing to be F figured that since it made your melee attacks do P damage, it should be forbidden, just like cyberspurs or whatever else. But Bone Density Augmentation and Cyberlimbs get you P-damage regular melee anyways, and it's not like actual melee weapons are all F.

redTroll

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« Reply #2 on: <09-05-11/0907:21> »
Yeah seems well off. I can get a licence (fake obviously) for the gun in my mouth but God forbid i want to augment my body with something that allows me to punch people hard. Cheers for the info.

Nath

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« Reply #3 on: <09-05-11/1116:59> »
Somebody asked the same question on a French forum a few month ago. Considering Bone Density firt appeared the Universal Omnitech catalog featuring in Shadowtech, Third edition allowed getting a license for bone lacing, and bone density did not exist then, the best answer I could come up with was this:
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In 2068, Universal Omnitech is offering its new bone density bioware augmentation treatment to everyone, price starting at 20,000¥. This new technology is far more efficient and less invasive than Universal Omnitech old Bone Lacing™ reinforcement. This is why from now and until December 31, 2069, Universal Omnitech is offering a 20% discount of bone density augmentation to all the customer who previously chose Bone Lacing™. Bone Lacing™ will no longer be available at Universal Omnitech or its licensees.

Corporation or surgeons who would propose Bone Lacing™ will be sued by Universal Omnitech for patent infringement. Following the "Universal Omnitech versus Kokura Biotechnologies" decision, a permanent warrant from the Corporate court allows immediate seizing what would be infringing on Universal Omnitech intellectual property.

ARC

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« Reply #4 on: <09-25-11/0629:16> »
Somebody asked the same question on a French forum a few month ago. Considering Bone Density firt appeared the Universal Omnitech catalog featuring in Shadowtech, Third edition allowed getting a license for bone lacing, and bone density did not exist then, the best answer I could come up with was this:
Quote
In 2068, Universal Omnitech is offering its new bone density bioware augmentation treatment to everyone, price starting at 20,000¥. This new technology is far more efficient and less invasive than Universal Omnitech old Bone Lacing™ reinforcement. This is why from now and until December 31, 2069, Universal Omnitech is offering a 20% discount of bone density augmentation to all the customer who previously chose Bone Lacing™. Bone Lacing™ will no longer be available at Universal Omnitech or its licensees.

Corporation or surgeons who would propose Bone Lacing™ will be sued by Universal Omnitech for patent infringement. Following the "Universal Omnitech versus Kokura Biotechnologies" decision, a permanent warrant from the Corporate court allows immediate seizing what would be infringing on Universal Omnitech intellectual property.

That is quite interesting.  I didn't know that was why Bone Lacing was illegal.  it makes sense to me that is why it would be that way.
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Phylos Fett

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« Reply #5 on: <09-25-11/0658:00> »
There's no good reason for it. Nothing breaks if you houserule it, but there isn't errata, either.

Basically, what happened is that it's a consequence of design by committee, which leads to inconsistencies like this. Whoever assigned Bone Lacing to be F figured that since it made your melee attacks do P damage, it should be forbidden, just like cyberspurs or whatever else. But Bone Density Augmentation and Cyberlimbs get you P-damage regular melee anyways, and it's not like actual melee weapons are all F.

Nothing against the writers, line developers, and so forth, but I really hope that when SR5 rolls around, issues like this get addressed...

kirk

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« Reply #6 on: <09-25-11/1329:32> »
There's no good reason for it. Nothing breaks if you houserule it, but there isn't errata, either.

Basically, what happened is that it's a consequence of design by committee, which leads to inconsistencies like this. Whoever assigned Bone Lacing to be F figured that since it made your melee attacks do P damage, it should be forbidden, just like cyberspurs or whatever else. But Bone Density Augmentation and Cyberlimbs get you P-damage regular melee anyways, and it's not like actual melee weapons are all F.

Nothing against the writers, line developers, and so forth, but I really hope that when SR5 rolls around, issues like this get addressed...
It won't. Oh, some might, but many will remain unanswered. Plus you'll get the inevitable typos and misplacements of text, not to mention the additional last-minute "Hey, this'd be neat" ideas (last minute being relative, just not all the ramifications get considered). Oh, and don't forget where they decide rules that you didn't think needed changed, do.

It's the nature of the beast. Heck, it happens in encyclopedias and severely edited professional journals everywhere, what makes you think an operation working close to the bone is going to do better?

Trench

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« Reply #7 on: <10-02-11/2103:32> »
Bone lacing is much cheaper.
Look That up in your Funk & Wagnalls.

ARC

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« Reply #8 on: <10-02-11/2353:15> »
Bone lacing is much cheaper.

Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper.  And isn't that just as important?
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Phylos Fett

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« Reply #9 on: <10-03-11/0500:17> »
Bone lacing is much cheaper.

Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper.  And isn't that just as important?

Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.

ARC

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« Reply #10 on: <10-03-11/1525:11> »
Bone lacing is much cheaper.

Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper.  And isn't that just as important?

Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.

That was my point exactly.  But bone lacing also gives the imitation of a certain mutated character, just give them a couple of other modifications and it's slice and dice time, or Fastball special.
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Phylos Fett

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« Reply #11 on: <10-03-11/1557:38> »
Bone lacing is much cheaper.

Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper.  And isn't that just as important?

Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.

That was my point exactly.  But bone lacing also gives the imitation of a certain mutated character, just give them a couple of other modifications and it's slice and dice time, or Fastball special.

I didn't see the listing for Adamantium Bone Lacing - is that in War! ;)

ARC

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« Reply #12 on: <10-03-11/1812:41> »
Bone lacing is much cheaper.

Yeah, the Bone Lacing is cheaper, but Bone Augmentation's Essence Cost is a lot cheaper.  And isn't that just as important?

Exactly - money can always be acquired - there is a finite amount of Essence.

That was my point exactly.  But bone lacing also gives the imitation of a certain mutated character, just give them a couple of other modifications and it's slice and dice time, or Fastball special.

I didn't see the listing for Adamantium Bone Lacing - is that in War! ;)

No, but titanium is close enough.

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Trench

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« Reply #13 on: <12-09-11/0525:20> »
Many implants are trumped by more costly implants.

These items are still useful because  most npcs and starting characters dont have unlimited funds.

From a fluff perspective it would seem that law enforcement doesnt want the poor to be armed.  Also, as a bone strengthening process rather than a physical implant, Bone Density might be more difficult to legislate against.

Look That up in your Funk & Wagnalls.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #14 on: <12-09-11/1135:24> »
It's also harder to spot and therefore police.  Legal people take the easy road, too.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."