[Critias]

Depends on the Security Guards.  Bob's Security doing work at a mall isn't going to be considered a cop at all.

Depends on the mall.  Remember the boosted, wired, chipped-in, automatic weapon toting mall guards (albeit in goofy costumes) from 2XS? 

Corporations like their profits.  Malls bring them profits, and stand as symbols of corporate style, luxury, and extravagance.  Corporations are gonna protect their malls, and whoever they contract for it is surely gonna be a "cop" while he's on the property he's hired to protect.

[Mystic]

Depends on the Security Guards.  Bob's Security doing work at a mall isn't going to be considered a cop at all.

AAA-Level Security companies, yeah, they're the Cops.  AA-Level Corps, depends on the culture, I think.  Lone Star, for sure, however.

Also remember, that the extraterrioriality (I think I spelled that right) only goes so far. Much like embasies on foreign soil, the corps "law" only extends as far as their property...unless they happen to have the law enforcement contract for that city, then it may extend.

But that also goes to my next point. There is a difference between on-site security and law enforcement work. Procedures, tactics, and training are going to be different. Sure, there is going to be overlap in some areas, but overall there is a distinct difference between a security officer/specialist and a law enforcement officer. Hell, I personally walk in both of those worlds every day. Its like specialties within a company or military, etc. Its easier to train someone for either or rather than try and cover both. Now that dosen't mean that one can't do both, its just more likely that someone will start out in one particular place and may stay there.

Security is geared towards keeping a piece of real estate secure. Police are meant to enforce the laws. Compaines like KE may have the ability to offer both to potential clients, but logictically they would be different departments/divisions within the same company like human resources and information technology.

And on what Deliverator said:

Yeah, the corps will likely do all what you said, unless the runners did something or got something particularly valuable or how any particular run effected the company's bottom liine. But on the same note, if you think that the lower peons don't find out things....Granted they dont know much, but then that's where scuttlebutt comes in and that can be just as damaging as the truth. Too many transfers after too many spills, or people being gone for no reason. People do talk, and sometimes they do see the writing on the wall.

Its all relative as to how much or how little one knows, but then again when did things like the truth really stop anyone in Shadowrun?

 

[Red Canti]

This is why you say nothing then bring the goddamn guns anyway. Cause if you don't need them, you don't need them, no harm no foul.
If you do need 'em, because the Johnson has set you up he's in for one hilarious surprise.

Mr. Johnson can make whatever fucking rules he likes, but at the end of the day they're every bit as breakable as all the other rules a Shadowrunner ignores or disobeys.

A lot of you guys remind me of a group I was in back in SRII.  Almost the same set up as I laid out, very exacting instructions not to kill anyone or damage the facility, team suspected a set-up so two carried their "standard loadout" which included Assault Rifles.

The runners missed a very important trick here. And that is to have a very good reason to tell the people around you why you're lugging around heavy weapons in the middle of a factory.

It took me a while I admit, but I can think of the perfect alibi. You'll only need some fairly official looking uniforms and phony credentials to pull it off. And someone glib enough to believably utter the following sentence.
"We're the exterminators, we're here about those devil rats."

[Phylos Fett]

This is why you say nothing then bring the goddamn guns anyway. Cause if you don't need them, you don't need them, no harm no foul.
If you do need 'em, because the Johnson has set you up he's in for one hilarious surprise.

Mr. Johnson can make whatever fucking rules he likes, but at the end of the day they're every bit as breakable as all the other rules a Shadowrunner ignores or disobeys.

A lot of you guys remind me of a group I was in back in SRII.  Almost the same set up as I laid out, very exacting instructions not to kill anyone or damage the facility, team suspected a set-up so two carried their "standard loadout" which included Assault Rifles.

The runners missed a very important trick here. And that is to have a very good reason to tell the people around you why you're lugging around heavy weapons in the middle of a factory.

It took me a while I admit, but I can think of the perfect alibi. You'll only need some fairly official looking uniforms and phony credentials to pull it off. And someone glib enough to believably utter the following sentence.
"We're the exterminators, we're here about those devil rats."

Who ya gunna call?

[CanRay]

The Wolf.

[Weldûn]

I think some of you guys are forgetting -- security guards are the cops in Shadowrun.  Knight Errant?  Lone Star?  They're just security companies that have gotten really big, lucrative, contracts (for Seattle, for instance).

It's not like today where you can draw a firm line and put trained, professional, cops on one side, and lazy, low-wage, security guards on the other (or whatever stereotypes you prefer).  "Cops" are just corporate security with a contract for whatever street you're on.  There's no reason to think that corporate security is out of shape, under-armed, underpaid, not trained, or whatever...any more than there's some reason to then think the same about "cops."

Having worked in the security industry for some 5-6 years before leaving it due to health issues (I have a bad back), I find the stereotype of the "lazy guard" to be as inaccurate as most. The majority are hardworking people who are just like anyone else, they have a job to do and take pride in doing it well. That being said, I found that there were three main types.

1. Ex-Cop/Former Military - Now, while the police are now security agencies that doesn't mean that their personnel work for them for their entire careers. Just like any position, employees are moving between the corporations through various means for various reasons. And not always by burning their bridges behind them. And in Seattle, some of the old Lone Star cops have been rehired by Knight Errant, but not all of them. But you can bet that those that didn't are still good buddies with their friends who are, and are getting chummy with the new blood.

2. Change-of-career type - This is the category I fell into. I'd been working IT Support for over ten years and was getting nowhere, mainly due to politics. So, I decided to take advantage of being a 6'4" 220lb Maori and went into security work. Still, I paid attention during training, and paid even more attention on the job. I learned my job well and was treated with respect, often being placed in charge of security.

3. The Scrappy - Oh gods, save me from these schmucks. It's not the 30+ with a pot-belly who is a security team's weakness. They can still pay attention and call in problems. No, it's these twenty-somethings who are all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. So eager to do well and be the hero, they are the first to resort to violence, the worst at conflict management and a pain in the @$$ for everyone else on the team. But, you need 8 people for the site and you can only find 5 from the other 2 groups, so that means you have 3 scrappies to deal with. With time and patience, a scrappy can be molded into a good officer, but most don't have the patience or attention span.

"Remember that your opponent is rarely a villain in their own eyes, they're just some slot doing their job."

[CanRay]

Maybe I should get into Security.  I'm 6'1", over 200 lbs., and was raised by a Biker who was the most intimidating person you never wanted to meet when he was in a good mood.

5'4", and he loomed over *ME*.  Conflict resolution needs to be done before problems occur, after all.  Getting someone to decide to leave under their own power, by their own decision, is the best way, is it not?

Now, doing it before or after they've wet their pants...

[Kontact]

I generally like to run security as guys with a job to do, who know that their job does not involve drawing their pistol against a group of psychopaths armed with military-grade weaponry. 

Every now and then, you'll run into a John McClaine, but for the most part they're there for the every day and they aren't eager to get themselves or anybody else murdered by a superior force.

[Mystic]

<snipped>

3. The Scrappy - Oh gods, save me from these schmucks. It's not the 30+ with a pot-belly who is a security team's weakness. They can still pay attention and call in problems. No, it's these twenty-somethings who are all bright-eyed and bushy-tailed. So eager to do well and be the hero, they are the first to resort to violence, the worst at conflict management and a pain in the @$$ for everyone else on the team. But, you need 8 people for the site and you can only find 5 from the other 2 groups, so that means you have 3 scrappies to deal with. With time and patience, a scrappy can be molded into a good officer, but most don't have the patience or attention span.

I agree but would also propose another type:
4) The short-timer. This is someone who starts out OK but quickly becomes a problem. They often think the job is below them, but are there because they got the shaft. So their goal in life is to make everyone else around them as miserable as they are and muck things up at the same time. They also can be those looking to ride out their time until retirement and just don't care anymore. I lump them togeather because either way, they are usually around for a short amount of time.

Like any profession, security has all types.

I generally like to run security as guys with a job to do, who know that their job does not involve drawing their pistol against a group of psychopaths armed with military-grade weaponry. 

Every now and then, you'll run into a John McClaine, but for the most part they're there for the every day and they aren't eager to get themselves or anybody else murdered by a superior force.

Exactly. When I take side gigs, the first thing I ask is "under who's authority am I operating?" If it's the company, I know exactly what I can and can't do. If I'm under the auspises (sp) of the Sheriff's Department, I know I can do a LOT more. And what Im NOT going to do is try and play deputy when I can only act as security. One, not going to risk getting hurt, second not gonna risk getting sued.

[Crimsondude]

Maybe I should get into Security.  I'm 6'1", over 200 lbs., and was raised by a Biker who was the most intimidating person you never wanted to meet when he was in a good mood.

It was suggested to me several times when I was a bit younger to go into foreign PSC/EP civilian contracting. *ahem* No one would want that.



Storywise, the best explanation I have is that runners are expendable assets. So they are expended at the end of the job. If they survive, then bonus points to them for being clever. Eventually you won't have to test them. Eventually you'll just need to murder them because they know too much.

Otherwise, I'll go with Critias' first post. In your game, it depends on your players. I never just had goons ambush the meet. I go for a more ... strategic ... set of scheming.


There is also the matter of storywise runners are runners. However, at a table (or PbP forum) you're the stars/heroes in your own movie. That complicates things immensely from the simple storyline. Players tend to view their characters as heroic even if they are technically criminals (Or, as Critias calls D&D adventurers, "murderous hobos").